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What is the best way of selling a trading algorithm?
I created a trading algorithm which I want to sell. Its not scam, which usually people say when you want to sell it instead of keep it to urself. I dont really understand why except of being sceptical, correct me if im wrong. I want to know what kind of money making strategies are the best for selling my trading algorithm.
Payments for running my algorithm
Server 1, for my website.
Server 2, for my algorithm. (for security and performance its better to keeps these 2 seperate.)
Maybe some other payments I dont know yet that I have to pay for.
These payments are usually monthly or yearly payments.
Earnings that could be invested into the payments above
A part time job with an average salary of around 1k a month.
Me investing money into my own bot. I could withdraw a specific percentage after each profit trade. Balanced just right so I still raise in money thats inside my bot and do not get just 5 cents out of the withdraw.
These are earnings I could use to invest when im at the startup period. Since I would probably not earn enough money in this period with as good as no users at all.
Money earned from people that invested into my bot (algorithm).
This is the earning I want to use when im **not** in the **startup period**.
These are the strategies I am thinking of:
Starting is free, trades made by my bot (algorithm) have trading fee's from, for example, binance. And withdraw costs are 10% where, for example, 1% goes to binance and 9% to me. Pros:
New users might think its pretty cheap, they would lose nothing then already free earned money. the algoritm made $50 into $500 for them and they only lose 10% of it. Which would be $450 left with a $50 loss from that $500. This could result into more users, meaning more money invested in my bot.
If a user puts $1000 into my bot and keeps it running for 10 years with an average profit of 100% per year they would end up with 1 million. If users actually keep there money for this long without any withdraw I would basicly not earn any money from them till the last 10th year. If I do not have enough users that do withdraw in time it could result in being bankrupt...
I am not so sure if I can even make this strategy possible. Since the accounts are from an exchange like Binance I dont know if I can make sure an user can only withdraw at my website, so I can make sure I receive that 10% (-1% to binance, so 9%). If an user could login into there account and withdraw on the binance website I ofcourse can't receive that 10% so easily.
Inactive users. Users who lost there account or are not using it for any other reason. I would never receive any money from these type of users.
My opinion I would like to use this strat mostly because of my first pros. I told some real life people what I am creating and they where all saying that if it was only 10% they would for sure do it. These where people that never traded before and some of them I even had to explain what bitcoin was... This is ofcourse not my target audience but I would totally not mind if they would invest in me. Everyone was new to trading at some point and maybe I can be the trigger for them to start getting into it (or better said, getting into me :D ).
Starting is free, each trade made by my algorithm, buy or sell, will cost the user, for example, 0.5% of the amount. Where the withdraw costs are 0, exept for the costs that binance asks. Pros
I would earn **ALOT** more money the early states and would be able to pay off the servers or even upgrade them way fasteearlyer. This removes the risk of getting bankrupt at some point by not earning enough.
I would 100% sure be able to receive money from users, there would be no way (as far as I know) that users could bypass the costs. Which in strategy #1 may be possible.
Inactive users would not matter.
As good as all other websites that sell there algorithm's have this way of selling. I Belive being unique can work in case of getting extra users. They might think im different then these "scammers" if I use strategy #1.
Users might feel like they lose alot of money if they would start doing alot of calculations. And in the long term, they will ofcourse lose more money. Which is good for me but bad for them. This could result into losing users or getting less "new/starting" users.
My opinion This is definitly a secure/safe option. Especially in the early states. Maybe I could use this in the early states and use strategy #1 after the startup period (for only new users). But this could make everything very complicated.
Starting will cost, for example, $500. Trading fee's are free, exept for the one's from binance. And the same for withdrawing. Pros
I would for sure earn from each user and will be able to pay off my server's costs. But only if im actually popular.
New users would not buy or try my algorithm because it might be to expensive.
New users would not buy or try my algorithm because they could think its fake and do not want to take the risk.
People who are not experienced in trading or in investing would probably never start using my algorithm. Since I told some of those kind of people about this project I know this is true.
I would only earn once and only a set amount which would not make me really that rich... :D
My opinion It has more cons then pros which in my opinion means this is just a bad strategy.
What I want
I would like to know what u guys think is the best strategy and especially why. I would like it if someone has actually some tested results in what people would probably like the most and what would "sell" the best. If someone knows a 4th strategy or even more then I would like to know. But only the best strategy I would use and which one that is is what I want to know. NOTE! These pros and cons are NOT directly some actual facts or have never been seriously TESTED by me so if one of these are actually wrong, im sorry.
I just got into bitcoin and this stuff amazes me, I really wanna ask some questions and i hope you people can be patient with me.
By just got into, i mean i just started reading about it and watching videos and all that. I still havent bought any coin cuz im not confident if i have all the knowledge needed or not yet. So, what i have till now:
I'm gonna need a wallet to put my coin in. I chose an online wallet rather than local cuz it sounds simpler. I heard people use Blockchain's wallet to store their bitcoin and i was shocked that it was free. Which makes me think this is fishy. Is it secure to use it or not? Given that im only gonna buy 25-50$ worth of coin for now. Not much ik but hey, im a 17 year old who cant afford to lose more than that.
Im gonna need to find a place to buy bitcoin from and some of these places take a % of your coin, so iwant you guys to suggest me a reliable one which i can buy my first bitcoin from.
There are sites called exchanges, which im really not sure about at this point in time. Can you please explain to me what that concept is. All i know is that one of the preferable ones is binance.com which looks decent, so whats an exchange and is binance a good one.
Im gonna also need a place where i can sell my bitcoin when i finally want to.Will this be the same palce from which i wouldve bought my first ever bitcoin?
I think thats all i need to know for now. You guys seem to know your stuff very very well so idk if someone will even bother replying to a noob like me asking these dumb questions but hey, its worth a shot
Wanchain Telegram AMA - 05/11/2019 - questions and answers
location: t.me/wanchainchat most of the questions and answers from AMA that happened on 05/11/2019 on Wanchain Telegram, sorry if I missed any!
question: The current roadmap of Wanchain ends in 55 days. (When) can we expect to see a new one? answer: Yes we have been in many discussions about our roadmap next year. Hopefule we will release that by the end of month. Please feel free to contribute...
question: What is the team doing more regarding marketing ? How much mcap wan is targeting? Competition is getting too much now.. answer: We are working with a few new marketing partners. Revamping social media, leveraging our ambassador program but giving an extra boost when the DEX with RiveX launches. As well as other dApps we are looking closely at and hoping to have them deployed quite soon.
question: Hello Mr. Lu. It seems integrating new existing blockchains to the wanchain ecosystem is a very slow process... indeed only 2 at the moment (ethereum and bitcoin)... one every 9 months... when is this time going to be reduced and by how much time... ? there are hundreds of blockchains out there... both public and private... I understand the success of wanchain depends on integrating as many blockchains as possible. answer: We are in the process of improving the cross-chain mechanism and make it more open. Once that is done, they will be coming a lot faster. BTW, we are working on EOS integration...
question: Hello. What are your next major plans to boost wanchain ecosystem? Who is going to use wanchain network? Any significant partnerships? answer: We are working with FinNexus and RiveX currently to build the ecosystem. Also we are working with our partner on the cross-chain DEX
question: Does wanchain work for interop with chain like hyperledger and such? answer: Yes we are working with EEA and Hyperledger on the interoperability standards
question: Do feel financially stable? Do you still have funds from ICO to continue as going concern? answer: Yes, we have enough funds to continue our develoment in the coming years
question: My second question is related to the Elevenpaths (Telefonica) / Rivetz / Civic / Wanchain partnership. Is it still alive? Could you please share any details about the progress of that partnership up to date? answer: Hey, I'll take that one. We have a few new things in motion with Telefonica's Eleven Paths. Due to NDA we cannot comment on the specifications but more is definitely coming :)
question: We have seen many stable coins added to Wanchain (DAI, GUSD, TUSD, USDC). But I miss Tether... Are there plans to include USDT in Wanchain? It would be really helpful for WRDEX success IMHO answer: We'd love to integrate with USDT. It will only takes us a few days to integrate with the USDT on Ethereum...A little more challenging for the one on BTC though
question: Next Question : will there be any AMA in binance group for more new users engagement for the WAN ? so many great projects are doing ama in exchange group, team should consider some AMA with current listed exchanges.. answer: That's a great idea and yes we are planning to have more AMAs in/with other communities. After all, we are bridging technically (blockchains) but also their communities. We had a good AMA in the Cryptoverse telegram last week. We also intend to include more team members in future AMAs (business, technical, community, marketing).
question: i was wondering if its possible to increase the number of validators selected and reduce the amount of reward per selection? Small nodes will get selected more frequently, so people wont just choose large nodes for delegation answer: That is possible by reducing the block time. We have many parameters to play around but all of them require code change. At the stage we want to gather enough data from the POS network before we make any changes...
question: Hi Jack, which month do you expect storemannodes to be implemented? If all goes according to plan. answer: We are doing internal planning right now. Hopefully you can see our roadmap very soon...
question: What work doing our team to increase use cases of wan? answer: We are researching Dapps on different chain and are focusing on cross-chain DEFI applications. That's why we are working with FinNexus and RiveX. Also DEX, Lending applications, Games are coming up...
question: What's your take on mass adoption of wanchain? Do you have any plan or strategy to achieve that?answer: It will be a long process but will be faster than internet mass adoption. We are working with mobile partners like Telefonica and Pundix get us well positioned. Also we are looking into DEXes, DEFI applications, integration with Libra and DCEP and etc.
question: Hi @jackxlu, what will be the boost of WAN in 2020 to build confidence, create awareness and more adoption? Also why work on a cross-chain DEX when you can also work together with a cross-chain DEX, for example Switcheo/Neon Exchange? answer: Each partner has their own technologies and their own priority. We just want to push that forward as soon as we can
question: Hi @jackxlu what is the status of the blockchain interoperability alliance with aion and icon? It’s been a while since there has been any news on that. I know that the focus has been for each project to get their mainnet built and properly functioning. Since all 3 now have working Main nets and projects starting to deploy, will you be working more closely with those other projects again in terms of interoperability? answer: Hey Tim! There is no update here. Projects are focused on their own roadmaps for now and as Jack mentioned above, each project has its own technology so there isn't much need for the interoperability alliance right now. We will, however, bridge all chains together it's just a question of when. We hope to collaborate more with Aion and Icon going forward but we have to continue working on new integrations and eventually come out with a plug and play solution.
question: Is tokenization of building and other real world stuff in wan program? answer: On the enterprise side, we are mostly focused on interoperable reward programs (like with Telefonica's Eleven Paths, PUC Malaysia) as its a blue ocean right now. We are however talking to a few of our partners about creating joint ventures (tech + business) in Asia and Europe. We will leverage each other's technology stacks and business contacts.
question: You only mentioned WAN POS TPS is more than 1000+. Can you showcase the TPS to the community ? Or is there any already we can see it ? answer: Our research team has been working on gathering and analyzing POS data in the past few weeks. We should have the research data published very soon
question: Is it possible to integration with DCEP? I doubt China will allow an altcoin do that, please confirm it. answer: It's too early to tell but we do want to get the right partnership and make that a reality
question:@jackxlu how about SDK for popular programming languages like c# and java? For smart contract development you will only support solidity programming language? I understand the initial choice of this, take advantage of the network effect of developers that already know solidity, but what about all the others? answer: We recently released a SDK for Java. As long there is a demand, we can easily do for any programming language. For smart contract, we are looking into EWASM and hopefully we can support many programming languages for the smart contract
question: Can you share something about the legal status of Wanchain in the US, are there any legal issues/obstacles for getting listed on a US regulated exchange in the future? answer: No legal reasons stopping us from getting listed in the US. We want WAN to be available to anyone that wishes to use our platform. Having said that, there are a number of discussions happening and we are taking necessary precautions to stay ahead, it's just taking very long. That's all we can say about that right now, Adam.
question:@jackxlu can you talk about the recent events in China and their impact on Wanchain? what is wanchain doing to take advantage of china opening up to blockchain? answer: The recent events in China are very exciting. Many people approached me for possible partnership. Our team in China is so busy in different talks in recent days. Wanchain 4.0 release is coming up by the end of year and we have been working with EEA and Hyperledger on the interoperability standards. We have Lanchain as our enterprise solution and Wanchain can integrate with any other types of enterprise blockchain solutions. So we are really well positioned to take advantage of the current blockchain boom in China in the coming years
question: Any concrete plan on embark more developers to wanchain ecosystem? Team alone won't make it in the long run. answer: We plan to build https://wandevs.org/ out further. Wandevs is a community of developers working on technical documentation, cross-chain dApps and tools for Wanchain. We had a soft launch but plan to increase the number of developers and incentives in this program through new guides, challenges and vitual hackathons. We are for example talking to 0xcert now about doing a cross-chain NFT virtual hackathon in the new year.
question: Hi Jack Lu. Amazing to have you here! You perhaps have already answered this question, but will the others blockchain projects ever be able to integrate themselves to Wanchain (plug & play system)? Waiting for wanchain team to do the whole work can be hard. answer: Our plan is to get the solution perfect before our dev community or other projects can integrate with Wanchain by themselves
question: Hi @jackxlu, @machinayz has there been any progress with the potential Belt and Road initiative contract that you spoke of in a previous AMA? Thanks. answer: Sorry Steve, we missed this. There are no further updates here. Li Ni and team are working hard on it though :)
question: Jack Lu, thanks for your work. Wanchain is growing a lot. My question: Are you talking with any retail company for partnership? answer: Not yet but it's a great idea because Wanchain can serve as a gateway for multi-coin payment. Any suggestions?
question:@jackxlu Is there any plan to improve node management ? to pass "partner off-chain" to "partner on-chain"? answer: Not at this point but please send your requirement or suggests to me. Thanks!
question: Do you still believe in Wanchain becoming a top 10 project? Thank you both Oliver and Jack for your time and answers¡ It has been a great AMA. answer: Sure I do believe that. And thanks so much for your support!
Thanks for everyone for participating, sorry if I missed any questions/answers. Stay tuned for any upcoming AMAs!
Weekly Update: Bitcoin Pizza with 2gether, aXpire in India, BOMB stickers, Opacity beta... – 17 May - 23 May'19
Hiya everyone! Here’s your week at Parachute (17 May – 23 May’19): This week’s Parena had a super long finale which saw FlareOfFlame beating Ketan 3:0 to take home the spoils from a 100k PAR pot. The Parachute Shop now has a twitter handle. Check it out now! Congratulations to fellow Parachuter Rene for becoming an admin at Wysker. The latest brainstorm session with Uptrennd revolved around how blockchains will affect our way of life in the near future. Well rounded discussion sesh with some pretty cool thoughts thrown in! We also got to see another gem from Gian’s collection of antiquities. Webster’s dictionaries from 1829 and 1851: These beauts cost 2 bucks each Bitcoin Pizza Day was this week. And 2gether had an amazing bounty for its community. Buy pizza with crypto using your 2gether card and share pics. Win 75 2GB in the process. Sweet! If you face trouble while using the app or the card or just have a question or a recommendation, this feature in the app allows to shake your phone and submit your doubt/suggestion. 2gether received the Finnovating FinTech Award for being the most innovative FinTech at Uconference Madrid 2019. Another feather in 2gether’s cap that is already teeming with feathers. Yum! Remember aXpire’s guerrilla marketing campaign at Consensus 2019 from last update? As promised, here’s some more pics from it. The team gave away some neat merch to attendees. CEO Gary’s article on how blockchain is impacting the Regulation Technology market was published on Datafloq. Rohit and I also wrote an article on crypto regulations in the EU which made it to Hackernoon. The weekly 10k AXPR burn can be tracked here. aXpire top management was in India this week. Here’s a few pics from their visit. Here’s looking at you aXpire crew: The front desk looks fresh The Horizon State community maintains an online repository of AMA reverts and FAQs. Click here to have a look. Q&A from May will be added soon. Horizon State was added to the Blockchain Impact Ledger which is a registry of blockchain projects that make positive social impact. The registry is maintained by Blockchain Trust Accelerator. WandX fans, lookout for the latest update which covers technical improvements (staking architecture, updated dex code) and upcoming milestones. 300 BOMB tokens were given out as part of the BOMB sticker contest. The winning entries came from JimPanze. BOMB was also listed on Coinmarketcap this week. Woot! JimPanze’s winning sticker set The Hydro team conducted an AMA with some of the team members answering Q’s on their way to the Malta Blockchain Summit. Biz Dev head Mark Anstead presented the project onstage at the event as part of the AI Startup Pitch. The team was also at the EthNewYork conference showcasing the Molecule platform. If you attended, hope you had a chance to say hi. Switch (ESH) was listed on a new exchange (Dobi) and they marked the occasion with an airdrop and trading competition. Switch’s feature docu on John McAfee will be releasing this August. The official trailer was released this week. Plus, a timely word of caution from the team that signing up for random exchanges is risky. A few decks from Mark’s pitch on HYDRO Opacity’s OPQ token was listed on Payfair. What’s OPQ’s utility you ask? This explainer video lays out the token’s use-case and benefits. Closed beta testing of the platform started this week. Sneak peak of the beta can be found in this article. Uptrennd founder Jeff was interviewed by Crypto-Current recently. Watch it here. Like Hydro, Birdchain was also in Malta for the blockchain summit. Click here and here to listen in to their CEO and Founder. WednesdayClub is already on imToken. With their latest submission, you will soon be able to see the full WED token profile on imToken as well. The weekly airdrop post, shares a few updates on the dApp. You can now post on WednesdayClub and share across other social media channels. Nice! As already mentioned in the last update, District0x’s Meme Factory went live. A flash sale for the dankest of memes was also conducted. Have a read of the introduction article to know what the Meme Factory is all about. Cryptoslate featured the platform in their news section. For more on District0x, check out the District Weekly. The most expensive memes in the Meme Factory marketplace right now Fantom announced a partnership with Fusion this week. As part of the agreement, Fantom will be using Fusion’s interoperability solution to enable cross chain accessibility for Fantom tech. In line with their interoperability push, Fantom also entered into a collaboration with Binance Chain. Ethos announced that its Bedrock platform (which provides enterprises easy access to blockchain) will be used by its partner Voyager to provide custody solutions in tandem with Ledger. Cointelegraph covered this news as well. As part of its ongoing community engagement, Ethos had an AMA in their Telegram channel and opened up a survey for feedback on upcoming product development. Hope you had a chance to take part. Cardrates’ interview of Bounty0x CEO Angelo came out recently. They discuss on a variety of topics including a details on how bounties work and future development. Tons of technical development have been happening on the platform. For example, faster automated tracking of tweet submissions, updated landing page, Bounty0x in Enjin dApp browser etc. Read more in their company update and micro update. And with that, we close for this week at Parachute + partners. See you again soon with another update. Ciao!
Investing in VTHO vs VET– understanding fundamentals for the two token system
The story with Bitcoin is very simple: if you have Bitcoin you actualy own Bitcoin and you own piece of virtual gold. Its simple as that. With ALT coins/tokens its not that simple and Vechain is a two token model (VET and VTHO) which makes things even more complicated. People dont see or they dont want to see the critical importance of VTHO price in creating value for the VET token which only purpuse is to generate VTHO. The fact is lot of people are investing in VET since it was hyped and has better exchanges and liquidity and bigger MC but the fact is that VeChain operate on blockchain which use VTHO to broadcast transactions. Price of VTHO is so dirty cheap comparing to VET that its way better and smarter to buy VTHO since for the same amount of money you can buy more VTHO that will VET produce in lifetime. Someone says its like printer and money and you shold buy printer instead of money, but its not like that since that "printer" cant print unlimited amount of money, its desigend to print only 2% of money yearly and for the price of printer you can actualy buy "money" that will take 50 years to print it if you invest same amount of money in printer. Based on current prices and VeChain token economics I dont agree that at the moment VET is better investment from VTHO. Only thing that can make VET price higher long term is VTHO value so thats why its better to invest in VTHO short term. In order to see VET rise it must be lead by VTHO rise since it cant go other way around. Maybe the simple way to explain this is that VET is like stock and VTHO are like dividends but is it really that simple since holding VET does not actualy make you shareholder of the company? Only purpose of holding VET is to generate VTHO so in order to increase demand for VET we first need to see VTHO increase in value, not the other way around otherwise ROI will go even more down and who will invest money in model that gives you less then 2% ROI?! That just doesnt make sense to me. The white paper (section 3.4.3) says if the price of VTHO goes up, VTHO used for transaction will be adjusted in a way to decrease amount of VTHO used for transaction and that is the first step that will be taken before increasing VTHO generation rate which can only move the price of VTHO up so when someone say VTHO price increase will make transaction cost expensive its showing that they didnt read the white paper or they didnt understand it as well as the lacks a basic fundamental understanding of the two token system and the critical importance of VTHO price in creating value of the VET token. There are also other indicators that VTHO may be better investment from VET at this moment and thats why im thinking of using portion of my VET to buy more VTHO and when price go up i plan to convert VTHO back to VET before they increase generation rate. When you do some math and your investment is based on fundamental facts for the two token system instead of speculation and hype its actualy common sense, why buy only one cow and wait for milk if you can for the same amount of money buy more milk that will this cow produce in lifetime. There are also many speculative reasons why i belive price of VTHO will increase short term much more then VET. One of them is for sure Binance listing VTHO which can with only few BTC buy make price pump 10 times up. I disagree with speculation that VTHO can be traded on Lbank and OceanEx and that Binance will not be paid since there will not be real liquidity without Binance, only wash trading on exchanges like Lbank so VeChain must list VTHO on Binance if they want to create liquidity and value for VTHO in order to create value and demand for VET. Also Binance have wallets for VTHO and they already listed GAS and ONG so VTHO is by my opinion next. If the price of VET go up VTHO will follow since its logic that nobody wants a stock where dividends dont have value so I think VTHO is better investment at the moment at least until the numbers dont change but long term holding only VTHO without VET would be terible idea. I know most of when moon & lambo kids will downvote everything that they dont understand because almost all of us hold only VET not VTHO but isnt this a place where we can talk and discuss about everything to make better investment decisions? What I dont understand is why are people against investing in VTHO? Just 1 BTC buy can buy you 5,000,000 VTHO which is more VTHO that you will generate in lifetime with your VET if you hold 750,000 VET which can be bought for the same amount of 1 BTC.
Weekly Update: Parachute Big Chili Race, Birdchain roadmap, Dash on ETHOS, Fantom on Binance Dex... – 24 May - 30 May'19
Hi everyone! Happy 4th of July to all. We are super behind on the weekly updates. So, starting today, I will be putting up updates every day for the next 5 days to get completely caught up with the latest at Parachute + partners. Are you ready? Here we go. Your week at Parachute (24 May – 30 May’19): Parachute’s Tip Room now has a gaming channel. Jason’s plant betting competition is still not off to a start since leaves haven’t sprouted yet. Congrats to OG Parachuter Toadie for completing his degree at uni this week! Victor’s trivia in ParJar was based on ancient Greece. 50k PAR were given out. Chris started an NBA Finals betting game. A ton of PAR to be won. Nilzinho’s Big Chili Race just started as well! 8 participants are betting on 8 chili plants to get to 50 cm first. All or nothing. 400k PAR pot. Jeezums! The contenders Thank you Veronique for the leaderboard! Parachute + Uptrennd brainstorm session for this week was about Big Co. entering crypto. Uptrennd’s twitter and Instagram handles have been updated. The roadmap was published this week too. Plus the first 1UP listing announcement. Here’s looking ahead to more! Birdchain’s roadmap was released this week as well. Check it out! This was followed by an AMA with the management of Birdchain. Their article on how to earn crypto is also pretty nifty for folks new to crypto. Meme Factory assets were added to the OpenSea Crypto marketplace. Woot! The District Weekly and Dev Update cover more news from the District0xverse like perfecting the infinite scroll, debugging DANK faucet etc. Birdchain roadmap for 2019 Check out HYDRO’s tweet thread where they explain how their blockchain based identity solution (Snowflake) helps make Financial Services more robust. The various HYDRO whitepapers can be found on their GitHub. And here’s the team that’s making all of this possible. The Opacity closed beta was opened up for everyone for this week as the team prepares for the launch of 1.0 next week. Youtubers Bitcoin for Beginners, Crypto Revolution and CryptosRUs reviewed Opacity this week as well. The project announced a partnership with QLC Chain to work on storage solutions in communication systems. New to Opacity? Check out this quick intro. Cryzen Code Studio users, make sure to check out the latest article from Shuvro on why MACD based trades rule! There’s also a strategy attached to the article. We created a Cryzen blog on publish0x and Uptrennd as well. That is a 107.45% return on a backtest. Say what! Dash is now live in the Ethos Universal Wallet. Sweet! Last week’s AMA transcript can be seen here. Don’t forget to have a look at the ETHOS blockchain education course. It is a great startingpoint for crypto entrants. Fantom’s proposal to list FTM on Binance Dex was accepted. COTI announced a partnership with Fantom for research on DAG. That Martini Guy’s FTM feature video also came out this week. Also, don't forget to check out this article on the team’s recent networking outreach in Dubai. Plus, a new article series called Fantom Archive was started which focuses on the project’s "philosophy and technical architecture". The first set of articles are based on architecture, on-chain data storage, virtual machine and distributed computing. P.S. all the literature is highly technical but detailed. The weekly aXpire burn event saw another 10k AXPR turning to dust. Rohit and my article on blockchain regulations hit the stands this week as well. We wrote it as freelancers on MatchBX. Shoutout to Victor who has conducted several trivias in aXpire (in addition to more in ParJar) to keep the community engaged. We had one this week as well. Fantom in Dubai BOMB’s Zachary Dash wrote a hugely popular article on the BOMB journey so far. Thanks a ton for the ParJar shoutout Zachary! The article was even featured on Medium. The Bombassadors program started this week. Dash also sat down for an AMA + Interview with PAC Coin and BOMB got featured by YouTuber Crypto Tips in one of her videos. Check out WednesdayCoin’s weekly airdrop post to learn about the latest updates at WednesdayClub. Complete information on the WED token should now reflect inside imToken after Mike’s resubmission. Horizon State's token, HST, got listed on Blockbid. We had the final Financial Friday competition this week at 2gether. Sad. I know. Hopefully there will be other fun events again. 2gether crypto debit card was featured in CCN albeit with some factual errors as pointed out by Cyril. CEO Ramon’s article on the startup scene in France was also published this week. His thoughts on Satoshi’s identity were also shared in a Forbes article. Also, check out 2gether’s tweet on the latest updates in the app. That’s right, QTUM is now supported on the platform. That’s it for this week at Parachute. Thank you for taking the time. See you tomorrow with another update. Peace!
George Cao :Let’s welcome lambda team . Xiaoyang and Lucy Lambda: Hello friends from BitMax ~~ I am Lucy Wang, Co-founder and CMO of Lambda. I am very happy to e-meet with you here and thx for George's invitation. I on behalf of Lambda wish all of you a merry Christmas and prosperous new year in 2019 George Cao: Great. I am a bit surprised to see a big volume day yesterday Christmas. Seems our users didn’t take a break even on holidays :) Lambda: I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce myself first, I have over 14 years of progressive career development with global leading enterprise software / service organizations as well as VC-backed start-up ventures, including HP, Oracle, and SAP. Before Lambda I was CMO/GM at two enterprise SaaS start ups in China backed by top VCs. And my partner Mr. He Xiaoyang, who is the founder of Lambda, he is a well-known expert in infrastructure and open source software in China. Prior to Lambda, he was the co-founder of OneAPM, a fast-growing infrastructure software focusing on ITOM (IT operation management) in China. OneAPM is known as the “New Relic or AppDynamics of China” and the company has received strong VC backing from Matrix Partners, Chengwei Capital, and Qiming Venture. Prior to his entrepreneur experiences, Mr. HE worked at BEA as a R&D software engineer. In addition, Mr. HE is also a blogger with strong following in China and some of his articles have been published by major media such as Forbes China, 36Kr, Sina, etc. Lambda idea was born at the end of year 2017 and the product development started from the beginning of 2018. Now let me talk about Lambda idea and what we do Lambda, is the leading decentralized infrastructure project providing secure, reliable, and infinitely scalable decentralized storage network that enables data storage, data integrity check, security verification, and marketplace for storage-related services on the Lambda Chain Consensus Network. In recent years, there have been frequent data leakage problems in major Internet platforms at home and abroad, and even business giants such as Facebook and Marriott have not been spared. Returning the value of data to data owners is an inevitable trend in line with human pursuit of freedom. The block-chain technology with P2P features provides an opportunity for this, and this area will be highly valued by the industry in the next few years. Lambda is the only provider of block-chain storage infrastructure projects in China. It is sometimes referred as “File-coin of China”or “File-coin 2.0”.our vision is to return the value of data to the data owner, with this vision in mind, our mission is to promote the decentralization of the Internet, with the goal of creating a storage infrastructure for the next generation of block-chain. After the Lambda project launch in early 2018, it has received strong support by well-known strategic and financial investors including Bitmain, Viking Capital, FBG Capital, Bluehills, Zhen Fund, FunCity Capital, Ceyuan Digital Fund, BlockVC, INBlockChain, DATA Foundation, Bitcoin World, Reflextion Capital, etc. To date, Lambda has received investment funding in excess of $10M. https://preview.redd.it/ynaos7rps2721.png?width=1267&format=png&auto=webp&s=77360b7cdf06c288e8c25675f94f5fb9d3d02137 n all the existing decentralized storage projects that are aiming to give a solution to this problem worldwide, Lambda is the first ever to announce its LPDP ( Lambda Provable Data Possession ) George Cao: I see we share several investors in common, So 2019 q1-q2 will be a big milestone for lambda Lambda: Provable Data Possession (PDP) and Proofs of Retrievability (POR) are critical to efficient decentralized data storage and its implementation, which is the essential difference between centralized network projects and real decentralized storage. Prior to Inter-planetary File System (IPFS), Lambda launched its minimum viable product (MVP) of core functions in the third quarter of 2018, and has been continuously upgrading and optimizing this in block-chains in a multi-role environment. File-coin is our main competitor, here is a chart shows the progress comparison FYI https://preview.redd.it/ewmyh9tqs2721.png?width=1267&format=png&auto=webp&s=cddc52a6d613196f6c0cbf870da42a5b82a8aaa6 For those who have interest to know more about Lambda's technical innovations, they can be find in our keep updating FAQ document posted on Medium, and I copied her FYI 1.Innovatively designed the Validator role which provides verification service for storage proof and the Validator replaces storage miner as the full-time storage proof result verifier, this greatly improves the performance of the storage and retrieval system. 2.In response to the limitations of the PDP algorithm, Lambda innovatively created a consensus network on the block-chain and used the validators role to replace the "TPA" in the PDP algorithm. 3.Innovatively modified the PDP algorithm from synchronous to asynchronous communication, which greatly reduces the communication traffic for Challenge in the system. Use of chain data as a random seed for storage miners to issue Challenge themselves addresses the randomness of TPA challenges. 4.Innovatively upgraded the PDP algorithm from periodic verification to a verification set generated by the miners to submit the verification result at one time, and fully realize the Proof-Of-Space-Time verification. on top of all the technical, Lambda creates a consensus network where data can be stored, storage space can be rented on the basis of a marketplace built on block-chain. In the Marketplace, the transaction process is: storage miners pledge hard disk sectors to the consensus network, and place orders and sell their own storage space in the Marketplace; storage users initiate purchase requests, complete the matching of storage requests through the Marketplace, and store data in the space of the storage miners. Different from other block-chain applications, Lambda is a storage mining project, we have miners mine on Lambda network. Earn LAMB tokens by contributing on the network, and users who have data storing requirements pay Lamb tokens to purchase services accordingly. The price of Lamb token not only rely on the exchanges but also supported by our miners who are doing works on the network. There are four roles in the Lambda mining network: storage miners (providers of storage space), verification miners (ensuring the integrity and security of data and packaging transactions), retrieval miners (providing download bandwidth), and users (storage buyers). 1024 verification miners promoted from storage miners constitute the Lambda-chain consensus network. So you will see three types of miners serve our users from all over the world. The key milestones we are looking at is the launch of test-net, where miners can start mining and earn testing Lamb tokens, the date will be around end of Jan. 2019 and main network will go live in Q2, 2019, most likely in Apr. Regarding our partnership, In the academic field, we have established a strategic partnership with Beijing Institute of Technology (BIT), which is well known in China for its engineering and computer science research programs, to conduct research into centralized storage. In the commercial field, Lambda has established a strategic collaboration with IOST, a well-known public blockchain project, and Perlin, a super computing platform, and started to conduct pilot projects for decentralized application (DAPP) companies such as DATA and BCV. Lambda also has close ties to many leading Internet data centers (IDCs) in China. They join the Lambda network as miners and take advantage of their surplus server capacity to engage in the Lambda network ecology. Q: Will the rest of the code be open sourced? If so when ? Lambda: we have released the codes of core function module, the test net codes will be released gradually in Jan. pls stay tuned with our official github Q: What can Lamb tokens be used for? Lambda: Lambs are tokens in the Lambda ecosystem, which are mainly used in the following scenarios: A. Users of services in the Lambda ecosystem have to pay with Lambda tokens. B. Providers of storage services in the system have to pledge a certain number of tokens. C. Verification nodes in the system have to pledge a certain number of tokens. D. Verification nodes can obtain a certain number of tokens as accounting rewards. E. Storage nodes get a certain number of tokens based on their storage capacity and their service level agreements (SLAs). F. Other roles in the Lambda ecosystem can also obtain a certain number of tokens based on their contributions. Q: What more incentives does miner gets to mine or rent storage on Lambda? Lambda: every miner stars from storage miner on Lambda network, they get paid by providing storage space, when their business getting bigger, system will select the top 1024 storage miners and promote them to validator, who will get block generation rewards from system. Q: how are the 1024 miners selected? Doesn't this become more centralised? Lambda: we did a survey to the Chinese miners, they mainly fall into two groups, either are waiting FileCoin to go live with purchased mining machine idle at home or they are doing hard drive or graphic cards mining, which has a high requirement to the hardware standard. To mine on Lambda, you need a mining machine ( computer ) that has big storage space ( because the bigger the higher probability you'll be promoted to be a validator ) and the connection to the internet Q: How much is initial supply? Lambda: Lambda did two rounds of fund raising, private investors have a lock up terms of 2+4+4 meaning the first 20% of tokens will only be released 2 months listing on exchange. so on the day one listing till 2 months there will be only around 0.5% initial circulation, and after 2 months, 5% in total. in addition to that, as we are recruiting miners to join our network, actually ppl have been in a situation where they can't wait to mine on our testnet. with the mining mechanism we have, miners need to buy Lamb token to get their mining work started, because a certain amount of pledge need to be made Q: What partnership will lambda and bitmax have in the future? Lambda: We value the way BitMax doing things and care about projects, we feel like we found the right exchange to be listed, in particular an initial listing. we will work with BitMax and do some joint campaigns to boost the community George: We have great chemistry with lambda team. Q: And are you still primary list in there, I heard the list was delay? Is it related to Huobi? Lambda: you are right, it is related to Huobi, but one thing you can be assured of is that our initial listing on BitMax wont change, but most likely a joint listing with Huobi. Q: what about the time of primary list? Lambda: we will primarily list very soon, we are targeting end of this week, now we are in the middle of some technical integration with Huobi George: We can assure everyone that our team will do our best to protect our investors and serve our listing projects. The promise does not change whether or not if we co-list with huobi. Q: We get reward to mine ? Any incentive? For testnet Lambda: Yes, you have two ways obtain Lamb tokens, buy from exchange and earn more from mining, but firstly you have to buy Lamb on BitMax haha. Are you asking the reward from testnet by mining on it? yes, you will get test Lamb token, and they can be redeemed to Lamb token with a ratio that will be specified shortly. on Lambda official website www.lambda.im, we have whitepaper, besides that we also have economic whitepaper to explain how the lambda economic system runs, on Dec. 28 we will launch our yellow paper where we will demonstrate the detailed technical realization and all the parameter setting for mining on Lambda Q: What are the implications if a miners rig goes offline or they decide to stop? Lambda: If miners rig goes off, they will not get the reward from the corresponding generated block, if they do cheating there will be punishment from the system, and if they decide to quit, the pledge will be returned Q: Lambda planning to have own FS? Lambda: Yes, FS and consensus network is separate. validators and marketplace are on the consensus network, while Files are in the File System. Q: Is Lambda GDPR friendly? Lambda: yes, we are Q: Hi can u explain what’s the requirements of decentralized data . Do You think big companies will like to use lambda services .... or it’s for medium level enterprises as big companies will go for their in house system with their reliable nodes ... Lambda: this is a good question, from I seeing it, ppl call out the protection of privacy, it is a trend and it takes steps. Lambda has two big groups of prospects users, one is DAPPs, another is the general industries such as big data, AI, IoT, Games, Financial, etc, as long as they need massive data storage demand, Lambda has the opportunity, data storage is expensive, especially when we are talking about big data, a lot of companies will value the cost in this area very much. currently we have lighthouse customer like DATA, BCV, VVshare, in the very near future, a game that is developed by Lambda team will also go live on Lambda network. from the BD perspective, Lambda will create a satellite network ( you can take it as channel network ) to bring us customers, we have a few reaching out to us already Q: Why suddenly launched on Huobi George Cao: I believe lambda team has its own consideration. Projects esp in bear market are facing pressures from different parties. Investors users exchanges. Not everything is under projects control. What we can do as an exchange is to stand by our partners and fully support them down the road Lambda: thx for the answer Q: I think you have made a great choice working with bitmax. Bitmax have really helped push new coins and their site in general with good PR, marketing and reward/airdrop promotions Lambda: strongly agree with you Q: GDPR has taken over the EU and the UK so that is very important Lambda: you are right, so we see to be GDPR friendly, which is one of our differentiator from FileCoin Q: Being GDPR friendly , European market is a go for lambda Lambda: I have this plan to develop European market by having a Raspberry program, it is still in planning. George Cao: Let’s take a last question and move to lambda community:) And as usual we will pick 3 best questions. We will send out 1000 800 and 500 btmx. @lambda do you want to pick 3 questions ? Q: Recent partnerships are interesting , can you tell us about coming q1 2019 both in terms of technical and marketing developments ? Lambda: from Marketing side, we are focusing on Chinese miners community and potential European market ( like I said still in construction ) Korean market is another, and US market to go along our compliance path, Lambda has been strictly abide by the regulations. from technical side, the most important task we are targeting is the main network launch as planned George Cao: Thanks everyone for your time. It’s a great ama as usual. We do have the best community. We will pick 3 winners and we will announce here after we finish ama in lambda community Lambda: thank you all for your time to participate the AMA, I had a great time with you, see you friends and have a nice day. George Cao: Hello everyone, Merry Christmas:) Lambda: Hello Lambdos. Today we have George, the founder of BitMax to join us for the AMA. Let's give him a warm welcome to do a introduction of BitMax George Cao: I am George Cao, founder of bitmax. I am happy to take the opportunity to talk to everyone here. Thanks to the lambda team. Let me start with a brief introduction about us. Bitmax.io (btmx.io) is an exchange founded by a group of Wall Street veterans. Unlike most projects, we are kinda of old :) core team are in their 30ish - 50ish. The 10 founding member have combined of 150 years of Wall st experience. I have 10+ yrs of high frequency trading experience therefore I know the trading system well. That’s why our match engine can handle 400k tps per second vs huobi 1000 tps. We want to build an exchange that is transparent, robust, and efficient. While our system is the best in class, we offer the lowest trading fees. We believe the current high commission will not sustain and we will see consolidating of the exchanges with better depth and liquidity and lower commission. We are happy to partner with lambda, one of the best projects in 2018. We are committed to serve the project and the community. Alright, I am ready to take questions. Anything you can ask, as tough as you want :) Q: Haha nice platform. George Cao: Thanks. We are young as a platform but we are working to deliver the best Q: I see reverse mining is new , I used many other mining exchange but all have normal mining . How does reverse mining works? George Cao: Reverse mining is an innovative approach that helps the exchange and the project in several ways. 1) the concept of reverse mining is by providing liquidity to the exchange, you get a rebate and deduct out tokens from your account of the same valued. You can think of a otc sell our. 2) the benefit is it removes lots of sell pressure from the secondary market. And provides a strong support for the token price. 3) it introduces lots of liquidity to the exchange and benefits all traders Q: The BTMX used in reverse mining are locked forever? George Cao: Yes so the total number of tokens are always reducing your Q: I've really been enjoying using the bitmax exchange so far especially with the low fees and data usage rewards. Does the exchange plan to bring in a shorting function in the near future? George Cao: Yes we will have margin and futures trading Q: It was supposed to December right ? George Cao: We postponed our margin to Jan. The reason is we want to be more careful on protecting margin call protections. Q: Margin trading and futures is important for BTMX price to drive up George Cao: Totally agree Q: Does BitMax have any activities on New Year's Day? George: We do have multiple promotional events. Including but not limited to airdrops. Please visit our website and stay tuned Q: I saw the whitepaper of bitmax, can you talk more about your dividends the formula is really hard for me ? George Cao: Sure 80% of our commission goes to our fee pool. 1/180 of the total pool will be distributed daily. As long as you are a token holder, the current rate we pay is over 100% annually Q: Oh I see, so the dividends will be smooth, great idea. George Cao: Yes unlike other mining exchanges have huge volatility on div we smooth our curve Q: I've also heard there is a mobile app in the works, is this likely to be released in the near future? George Cao: Almost done. Beta version is in testing Q: What about the north American, will it be available in the future? George Cao: We more cleared our legal path for fiat trading in us. Q1 2019 we will launch in the us Q: Great news I think this will bring a big volume. George Cao: Yes agree. Our team is excited as well Q: With promotional Airdrops that require a certain amount of the BTMX token to be held such as The lamb one that has taken place on the exchange this week. Are tokens that are locked for data usage or in cards taken into account when balance screenshots are taken? George Cao: Yes we will take that into account Q: When will be the private sale tokens be released ? George Cao: As soon as we mined 90m we will start to release Q: So let me get this right .. you give us FREE BTC and ltc and even Lambda EVERYDAY if we hold BTMX and agree to share our data George Cao: Free usdt btc eth Q: Wow. In a bear market, Free btc is the best thing ever George Cao: We share revenue with our users, 90% is usdt. Not sure if you like it:) Q: also consider adding coins like ADA and few from top 30. People need more coins George Cao: We are adding stellar and zcash soon Q: I heard they are insured Unless we give password to someone hehe George Cao: Yes we are using custodian service Q: George are our funds SAFU with you? Exchange insurance? I would say it is With the industry giants backing this exchange George Cao: Sequoia matrix bitmain fbg dhvc are our equity investors Q: What’s to stop People dumping BTMX token after free btc Or stop capital investor dumping on retailer George Cao: They get it every day. Why would they dump? All equity investors can not sell on secondary market. They can only to reverse mining Q: Will margin allow reverse mining instead of normal mining? George Cao: Not initially Q: People do irrational things when btc moves Or whales dumping, I heard there was a lock up token or something. To stop this George Cao: We required lock our tokens to get rewards. You can request to unlock at anytime but it takes 24 hours to process Q: Binance is developing DEX any plans for BitMax ? George Cao: Not anytime soon we have a looong to do:) Q: It's good you have dex in mind , with improved scalability in future maybe bitmax can build good dex George Cao: Agree Q: Retail investors are important , George knows it haha George Cao: We care most of retails Q: It would help if they also burned or locked tokens up George Cao: Yes we permanently locked Q: Seems you have everything thought of.. but how about moving to Malta? George Cao: We priority US. Once us is clear pretty much everywhere is clear Q: Doesn’t any exchange cover US right now? George Cao: Coinbase but they have 0 international coverage and 0 client service Q: What sort of systems are in place for abnormal/suspicious activity on the exchange? George Cao: We prohibit self trading. For unusual trading behavior we ban the account and as for explain in the first violation. For continued violations we permanently ban the account Q: can we get a glimpse of mobile application ? George Cao: There is a beta version you can use but we are keep improving Q: What are the precautions taken to prevent wash trading ? George Cao: We have pre trade and post trade checksums. E.g we don’t just scan one account. We check or related account Q: Will market orders and stop-loss orders be available in the future? George Cao: Yes we are working on it Q: what do you think of lambda project and community George Cao: Lambda is definitely one of the best projects this year. We have been working with lambda for months and have lots of respect ion for the team. Community is also great very well organized. I didn’t talk much but I joined lambda tele group for a while. Great interaction Q: So the trading starts at 8 pm ETC? George Cao: It’s postponed. Please stay tuned for announcements Lambda: We will make announcement giving out time and new date. Q: when please? It's also more professional to be able to give dates and respect them Lambda Cao: we are working hard and aiming the date of Dec. 29, pls stay tuned, thank you George: Unfortunately bitmax and lambda don’t have 100% control of the date and time. Huobi is holding the ball Lambda: The listing dates have been postponed and we don't want to give out a random date. I request you to have patience and wait for official announcement Lambda: we will try everything to protect retails interest Q: Can’t let houbi just arrive late to the party? Lambda: in the long run we may need Huobi to help us better protect us all George Cao: We trust lambda team can make the best decision for all investors Q: Have you been busy with listing recently? Anything else？ George Cao: We have been working 24 hours a day including Chris eve :) Listing and app and margin and lots of new improvements Q: Why would we need huobi with bitmax on our side. George Cao: Trust me we are as upset. However as an exchange our mission is to serve projects and investors. Please join us in fully supporting any decision lambda team made. We have 100% confidence in lambda Q: Are you familiar with the REKTbot and SYSTEM OVERLOAD problems at bitmex George Cao: Yes but still bitmex is the best place to trade future compare with okex Q: Slap that Hayes fool when bitmax start margin and futures.. George Cao: Haha i don’t want to declare war with them. Let’s be a bit patient :) Q: Could bitmax handle That volume and not system overload George Cao: We are 100% confident George Cao: Alright i have to run for another meeting. It’s been a great ama. Thanks everyone. For any trading related questions please contact our client support. We promise to get in touch in 5 mins 7/24. Thank you all! Lambda: thank you for participation, have a nice day!
Slack log for Ark token's value proposition discussion 16-07-18
Please find below a log of the discussion we had in slack regarding the ark token's value proposition. Some of the community members who happen to be long term holders of ark feel that the ark token's value proposition isn't clearly communicated by the team so they asked about it. I'm posting the entire discussion it here to make a permanent record since slack wipes messages after a while. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- arigard [7:21 PM] Hey team, so I'm curious. Is there any update on a new white paper at all that was being mentioned? I've been holding Ark since it hit Bittrex and I personally don't really have a clear idea about how the token is going to work in the overall picture, or what really the direction is for the project once v2 is out. It feels like things have gone a bit flat recently, are there any updates on direction and what the plan is once V2 is live? Is there any idea about when it might go live? Or how the Ark token will fit into the economy (will it be a gas?). I see a lot of other projects i'm invested in coming up with very clear roadmaps/dates and direction about what they want to be and I still personally feel Ark's message is a little confused and hard to read especially for people who are not coders/developers. rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:22 PM] the roadmap is on the site, arkdirectory.com/kits has nice presentations and other goodies roks0n (deadlock) [7:23 PM] @Matthew_DC mentioned a couple of days ago that he’s preparing several blog posts which should explain most of these @arigard rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:23 PM] the Blog also goes into lots of v2 details Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM] Hi everyone. rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:24 PM] Ark is Ark, not like Eth with gas, hence no gas. Hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) welcome back Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM] Hey rob, hi Rok :slightly_smiling_face: roks0n (deadlock) [7:25 PM] Rob, I think he means how everything will be connected with ArkVM etc. similar conversation as the one few days ago (edited) Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:25 PM] It's been a while, but I was head on in the project, sorry for not showing more often. arigard [7:25 PM] Yeah my main question is really I still don't know what will give the actual Ark token value . goldenpepe [7:25 PM] we dont know how the arkvm will work All we can do is wait Doubled1c3 (ArkStickers.com) [7:26 PM] uploaded and commented on this image: bucket.jpg @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) goldenpepe [7:26 PM] We can make assumptions but that's all they'll be roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM] @arigard this was the discussion: https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531422791000216 roks0n (deadlock) definitely, I’m not blaming anyone :slightly_smiling_face: Was just curious if there were any developments in terms of the updated whitepaper because I was reading one of the threads on reddit from 6 months ago where it was mentioned you’re looking to hire someone write it up. Posted in #generalJul 12th arigard [7:26 PM] And I kind of feel this is such a big elephant in the room for people in the long run. roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM] click on the link and read from that post on (edited) arigard [7:26 PM] ok Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:27 PM] I saw that there has been some drawbacks with the V2 ? (Not sure if it's exact, I only came a few times and seemed to understand it was so) goldenpepe [7:28 PM] There are just some incompatibilities between v1 and v2 in devnet which is why devnet is currently down rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM] ArkVM may be unnecessary as more modern approaches to handling contracts are available, one of the main issue is having them be distributed just like the tokens. goldenpepe [7:28 PM] There's a community run v2-only devnet though #devnet_unofficial rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM] it's more like drawback with v1 arigard [7:30 PM] I mean I've seen a lot of stuff in that discussion discussed over the past year and there still seems to be no concrete answers coming out and that is a bit of worry to me personally. It makes it look like the team doesn't even know. I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air. In other projects I know what gives those tokens value, but in Ark I don't, so it's hard for me as an investor to really sell to someone else the benefits of the token when there is a big question mark still on it. rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:33 PM] do you know that Ark Deployer has been available for quite some time? arigard [7:34 PM] Yes, that doesn't really answer any questions though. mak [7:34 PM] Ark deployer helps the main chain's business case somehow? arigard [7:35 PM] What gives Ark token actual value? Like what is the reason people need to buy and hold the Ark token? That is my question. Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM] @mak what you're saying is kinda like answering you can use a hammer when asked what a nail do. arigard [7:36 PM] You don't need to buy the Ark token to deploy a chain. You can just do it. Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM] I mean, the Ark Deployer doesn't answer what's the Ark. mak [7:36 PM] @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) my point was directed towards rob's comment. I think you misunderstood it. Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:37 PM] @mak My bad then. I apologize. Blockhunter [7:38 PM] :boogieark9: rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:38 PM] " I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air." This is why I wrote that.. there is no mystery of how that works. You are mistaken or uninformed. arkenstone [7:38 PM] That's the problem here because team is programming orientated but there hasn't been alot done on business aspect of the token and marketing investor point big view mak [7:38 PM] That only explains the value of the ark codebase not the blockchain though arigard [7:38 PM] I think you seem to be trying to turn the argument in a seperate direction. It's a simple question. What gives the Ark token value. rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:39 PM] The market does. It's on 19 different exchanges. arigard [7:39 PM] Seems like you are being unhelpfully obtuse. I'll rephrase. roks0n (deadlock) [7:39 PM] so one thing that is clear to me is interoperability using ACES, where ARK is used as a “middleman” between two different chains, so if there’s high volume between those chains, it means the volume of ark increases as well .. what I’d like to know is how things will work with arkvm and how it will all work with sidechains (on eth, all the side chains will basically link back to the main chain which will be the one responsible for security afaik?) arigard [7:39 PM] What gives the Ark token value in the Ark ecosystem. Blockhunter [7:40 PM] Vote for Pedro he will make all your dreams come true arigard [7:40 PM] Eth is a gas, Waves is a gas. Ark is... what? mak [7:40 PM] ACES can work with any chains though. Doesn't have to be ark main chain. So I guess tomorrow persona can become the settlement layer for the Ark ecosystem and there's no incentive to stop it from happening. arigard [7:40 PM] ^ roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM] Mak, correct but if there are already lots of chains connected between ARK, it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:41 PM] As I understand it, ACES could be using any given blockchain as the middle man... roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM] it doesn’t mean that it can’t be copied tho arigard [7:41 PM] But there are no chains connected through Ark atm That have any real value anyway roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM] eth and btc are arigard [7:41 PM] And they can be connected through any Ark clone. bangomatic [7:41 PM] I'd love to hear the Ark team chime in on this discussion arigard [7:42 PM] So anyone can come along and make another chain that can instantly overtake Ark at this present time if there isn't a failsafe reason for Ark to be the defacto currency. rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:42 PM] https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422 you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true. arigard That have any real value anyway Posted in #generalToday at 7:41 PM Blockhunter [7:42 PM] Interoperability to the moon mak [7:42 PM] "it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly" Currently Ark is the only mature chain because it's been around longer but the moment persona or some other bridge chain gets listed on an exchange that dynamic is no longer there. So why would you prefer Ark over persona when that happens. That's the question as far as I understand it. (edited) rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:43 PM] Persona has other goals, not duplicating Ark goals Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:43 PM] @bangomatic Hi! arigard [7:43 PM] What current sidechain of Ark has real value/position in the crypto market? Persona? bangomatic [7:43 PM] hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)! mak [7:43 PM] The blockchain as a transaction medium doesn't care about secondary goals. It still has all the capabilities that Ark has. Colby [7:43 PM] What has value right now? :thinking_face: rob [ Ark Labs ] https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422 you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true. https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422 Posted in #generalToday at 7:42 PM arigard [7:43 PM] Ark's ecosystem at present is not big enough to be a reason not to just take the tech and start your own. To think otherwise is ludicrous. rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:44 PM] that's a fine opinion Jarunik [7:44 PM] it is harder than you think :slightly_smiling_face: arigard [7:44 PM] We aren't Eth with multi $100mn + start ups and even if we were, what's currently to stop one of those just overtaking Ark and leaving it behind? Jarunik [7:45 PM] i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face: Colby [7:45 PM] Same here! Jarunik i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face: Posted in #generalToday at 7:45 PM Blockhunter [7:45 PM] HODL ROCKET TECHNOLOGY mak [7:45 PM] Same here but then there's no reason to hold Ark over something else arigard [7:45 PM] i hope so too if there is some reason for Ark to always be there at the top considering it's the Ark platform. Colby [7:45 PM] But the thing is that I am wondering, if ark clones get successful, what benefits does it give back to ark Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:45 PM] @Jarunik to create an ecosystem? mak [7:45 PM] Right now we have to consider Ark's value not the other bridge chains arigard [7:45 PM] But if there isn't a reason for Ark to exist at the top, why are we all holding it? Colby [7:45 PM] Haha I think we are all thinking the same :slightly_smiling_face: arigard [7:45 PM] It's a terrible business plan rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:46 PM] the point of BridgeChains is to allow new projects with no access the market a path to them through Ark, and hence gain value. Other blockchains connections are through ACES, such as BTC, LTC, ETH, and more coming.. Persona has a way to trade Ark <> Prs arigard [7:47 PM] What is to stop them from getting their own exchanges in the future and just using Ark as a stepping stone to becoming their own platform operator? mak [7:47 PM] Sure rob, but there's now 10 different projects doing the same and they are faster in development than the ark team is arigard [7:47 PM] ^ Blockhunter [7:47 PM] Ark is the Yoda of blockchain and they need a better catchphrase. Better than ark gives no dates or point click blockchain arigard [7:48 PM] This attitude seems horribly naive if this is the value proposition. mak [7:48 PM] All of us believe in the vision that Ark brought us but I personally am not sure if Ark is the best option to execute that vision in time arigard [7:48 PM] The issue is, we don't know what the value proposition is. mak [7:48 PM] Other projects seem much faster rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:48 PM] if you are into speculation, which it seems you are, then on paper all of your projects with no code are better and have more value than Ark arigard [7:48 PM] That's not true at all. lol. Matthew_DC [7:49 PM] At the most base level, ARK is a common currency token that is essentially automatically compatible with every bridge chain that is built based on ARK and is optimized for transaction volume and throughput to avoid bloat of other mechanisms introduced by the other chains. That is at the most basic level. By holding the ARK token itself, you will be able to enact the functions of multiple bridged chains both issued by our team and others. You will also be able to utilize the ARK chain as a pegged token to many bridged chains but that process will be transparent to users as it will be done behind the scenes without the user needing to do any functions. To think that someone will fork the code and generate a more effective ARK main chain means you have no confidence in the ARK team as the primary developer of the technology itself. In this case, if we are not and someone pushes a better version of the network, then I would argue maybe they SHOULD be chosen. That is the point of a free and open market. Not to mention the potential for registering and providing snapshot hashes to the main ARK blockchain to provide added security measures to a bridge chain with lower security due to lower market share etc, those are just baseline reasons. As I mentioned the other day, at face value, consider this. What brings value to Litecoin or Bitcoin or Doge? In essence, ARK is a more effective currency and base network than all of these aforementioned networks with all of the added benefits being added for additional use cases. roks0n (deadlock) [7:50 PM] will ark based chains be bridged via arkvm? goldenpepe [7:50 PM] They cant be You'd need the VM on both sides Matthew_DC [7:50 PM] I am currently on a conference call and have a lot going on so I can't respond too much. goldenpepe [7:50 PM] You can use AIP11's new tx types to do a sort of escrow between chains though i think mak [7:50 PM] @Matthew_DC Are you saying that the bridgechains deployed by ark-deployer don't have the same features? rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:50 PM] ArkVM is not for bridging chains goldenpepe [7:51 PM] It can be Coinme [7:51 PM] And ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token. goldenpepe [7:51 PM] But both chains will need to be running the VM Matthew_DC [7:51 PM] The ARK main chain will have specific methods of allowing token transfer and utilization between chains to include quasi-centralized methods through aces, decentralized aces based intermediary networks, Time locked transfers, among custom built smart contract like logic built into the core technology itself that doesn't make the network susceptible to the bloat and mis-utilization an vulnerabilities of full VM use. goldenpepe [7:51 PM] (which the main ark chain wont be) mak [7:51 PM] "ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token" Or any other bridgechain that's listed on exchanges @Matthew_DC So will all of the bridgechains, no? I could start an ACES node today for persona and it will have no difference from what you describe. Matthew_DC [7:52 PM] @mak no, we promised ARK would be open source and everything we build for the core ARK blockchain will be open source. arigard [7:53 PM] You can be open source and still protect your value.. Matthew_DC [7:54 PM] The point of ARK from day 1 has been to create a better base layer blockchain technology and protocol for everyone everywhere to be able to use to create anything they can dream up. The ARK token is a core payment layer for the ecosystem including any applications we build ourselves, sponsor, partner with, or support. mak [7:54 PM] It seems like the team's vision for Ark is as a software product only and there's no business plan for the main chain. Which is fine but it's not explained as such. (edited) Blockhunter [7:55 PM] Great to see such active discussions goldenpepe [7:55 PM] I think what Matt is trying to portray is this: A single universal Ark Ecosystem wallet holding ARK that has a nice UI with a list of dapps in the ecosystem You select a dapp You send a tx from the wallet using Ark ----------------Everything below this line is transparent to the user----------------- The Ark transaction has instructions in the smartbridge field The Ark gets converted to dappCoin via an intermediary like ACES (trustful) or a trustless escrow smart contract The intermediary received Ark and uses the dappCoin on the dapp chain to do whatever it is the user wanted to do using the instructions in the smartbridge field The dappchain responds to the request to the intermediary Intermediary sends an Ark tx with the results of the dapp computation/action in the smartbridge field ---------------Everything above this line is transparent to the user------------------- After 8+ seconds, user's wallet shows them the result of their interaction with the dapp bridgechain That's where the value of Ark will come from The Ark coin will be a universal "omni-coin" Matthew_DC [7:56 PM] :this: This goldenpepe [7:56 PM] That will instantly shapeshift into bridgechain coins to interact with the bridgechain dapp mak [7:58 PM] I understand what your point is and I agree it will work but only as long as none of the bridge chains are on an exchange when for example persona gets listed on binance the scenario changes and now either chain can become the backbone of the ark ecosystem arigard [7:58 PM] Yes. We see that. But hypothetically what is to stop a bridged Ark chain from becoming bigger than Ark and then going on to become that gateway? At this point it just seems to be hopium that the Ark network will always be the one people look to. But in one year, or two, or five, it might not be the case. What is to stop Ark being just sidelined if another team come along with develop on what Ark has built and propel it forward and take the mantle? goldenpepe [7:58 PM] What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin Would you rather hold a coin that can do one thing and is forever tied to a single chain arigard [7:59 PM] But in other crypto's an app becoming sucessfull is a benefit. In Ark's network it could be a negative. goldenpepe [7:59 PM] Or would you rather hold a coin that can interact with that single chain and 3232523432 others arigard [7:59 PM] But why can't another coin become an omnicoin? If there are no limitations against it goldenpepe [7:59 PM] Why can't another coin become ethereum? mak [7:59 PM] "What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin" Or if it gives out better staking returns etc like persona because of higher inflation rate goldenpepe [7:59 PM] if there are no limitations against it You can literally go on AWS right now and deploy an ethereum clone chain arigard [7:59 PM] It can, but an ETH token can't oust ETH That's the difference. We are giving people an easy route here. rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:59 PM] do you often think your children should not surpass you? Or is that the hope? Matthew_DC [8:00 PM] Well it's about security, trust, potential vulnerabilities due to added functionality, the ability of the bridgechain team to create interactions and focus on use cases for their token outside of their core use, etc. But that's the point of open and free markets goldenpepe [8:00 PM] There is a solution to your concern @arigard Matthew_DC [8:00 PM] What is to stop someone from being better than Bitcoin? arigard [8:01 PM] I think all these strawman arguments are fun, but they still aren't adressing the issuel goldenpepe [8:01 PM] Instead of having Ark Deployer literally cloning the ark codebase, have it be a turnkey solution to run a layer 2 chain Matthew_DC [8:01 PM] You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain. goldenpepe [8:01 PM] bridgechain dapps can be "colored coins" that are forever tied to the main chain arigard [8:01 PM] Yeah but you wouldn't have those businesses on the chain. goldenpepe [8:01 PM] but that would introduce bloat Matthew_DC [8:01 PM] So you are saying the utility of Ethereum is adoption. arigard [8:01 PM] And those businesses won't have the potential to become the main ETH. Matthew_DC [8:01 PM] Which is the case for the value of any token. goldenpepe [8:01 PM] @arigard It sounds like you want ark to become Ethereum Plasma arigard [8:02 PM] I just want an answer. Matthew_DC [8:02 PM] How many companies are pulling their ERC20 tokens off of Ethereum because of the issues? Colby [8:02 PM] Yeah but correct me if im wrong goldenpepe [8:02 PM] There is no answer that will satisfy what you are asking arigard [8:02 PM] And i keep getting strawmanned. Colby [8:02 PM] Ethereum projects NEED eth for gas Matthew_DC [8:02 PM] We talk to people almost every day that are looking to leave Ethereum. Colby [8:02 PM] Ark is needed for? arigard [8:02 PM] ^ Colby [8:02 PM] This is all I am wondering, where does the ark coin fit into it I love the idea goldenpepe [8:02 PM] @arigard You want ark-based coins to rely on Ark The team wants the Ark chain to not be bloated The solution to this is unironically ethereum plasma and sharding Colby [8:02 PM] but have been waiting for a while to know how the Ark coin will actually be used goldenpepe [8:03 PM] Shards in ethereum are basically "bridgechains" arigard [8:03 PM] Ok, and those teams might be big enough and clued up enough to eventually knock Ark from being the de facto omni coin. That's the worry. If this is in fact the possibility. Then it should be clear. mak [8:03 PM] "You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain." @Matthew_DC Ethereum has value because all the dapps live on it which is not true for ark arigard [8:03 PM] Because as an investor it worries me, a lot. I don't know where the value of Ark as an investment is 100% right now. Jarunik [8:03 PM] Ark is basically the inverse approach to Ethereum. Eth goes for big one-fits all first and tries to shard ... Ark is creating shards and then combines them goldenpepe [8:03 PM] There is no solution to what @arigard and @mak are saying right now Literally no existing solution Only proposals like sharding arigard [8:04 PM] And all this noise about defensiveness doesn't help. These are legit concerns. Matthew_DC [8:04 PM] When was it not clear that if a company comes along and builds a better more used product it could potentially take over market share? That's how all free markets work. You can't believe in open source and build and open source product without that risk. arigard [8:04 PM] But that isn't the same thing. Ark is literally building THE tools for people to then do that. mak [8:04 PM] @Matthew_DC Just to clarify I appreciate the work you guys are doing but I want to make an informed investment decision about holding the ark token arigard [8:04 PM] As a platform. Jarunik [8:04 PM] yes ... that is the idea how to grow arigard [8:04 PM] if you cloned Bitcoin back in the day you were a seperate currency. Jarunik [8:04 PM] provide good tools for others to create chains arigard [8:04 PM] This is a platform, its totally different. And what we are discuswsing here is who runs that platform. Matthew_DC [8:05 PM] If someone launched an Ethereum chain right now and gained adoption there is a huge potential that all tokens decide to move their ERC20 tokens to the new chain and it becomes the new Ethereum and you have in essence lost all value because Ethereum is not capable of being used on the bridge chain as a currency. ARK maintains it's value if for no other reason than the pegged value to any chain we personally create to include VM chain, token issuance chain, etc. arigard [8:05 PM] If it's built by Ark, does Ark always retain control? if not, why? What happens if Ark ends up building tools for a subsidary project that propels itself above them. Investors will just move to that coin. Matthew_DC [8:05 PM] Because it's an open decentralized system. The problem is people don't actually believe in decentralization if it possibly harms their potential for monetary gain. rob [ Ark Labs ] [8:06 PM] we hope bridgechains get popular because that also means more for Ark in many ways. arigard [8:06 PM] You can be decentralized without being 100% altruistic. It's not mutually exclusive. mak [8:06 PM] @goldenpepe Since you guys claim that there's no solution for this how about I present one which @Matthew_DC can decide if it's useful or not. Make delegate voting for the ArkVM happen on the main chain. So anyone who wants to become a delegate for the VM needs to hold money on the main chain. arigard [8:07 PM] It just seems people are being dogmatic about this. And if this isn't about investment. Why have an ICO? Matthew_DC [8:07 PM] Ethereum being the core chain for all ERC20 token based businesses centralizes the industry in a massive way. Not only is Ethereum itself centralized in the way it's mining structure was developed, but it also is centralized in that if the Ethereum network is compromised, thousands of companies assets and business are now compromised. We don't believe that is the future. mak [8:07 PM] I'm not saying that this should be done for all sidechains. Just for the VM and it will be a special case. Matthew_DC [8:07 PM] We believe in a different business model. That has been at the core of every description and explanation I have given from day 1. arigard [8:07 PM] Ok and that's fine, but my point is this should be made very clear if it's the case. From the team officially. goldenpepe [8:07 PM] @mak now you're strawmanning me Matthew_DC [8:07 PM] Where is it not clear? goldenpepe [8:08 PM] I was addressing the fact that the idea that bridgechains shouldnt be independent and should be tied to Ark being in conflict with the Ark team's idea that the main chain should not be bloated with dapps The only plausible solution to that right now is Ethereum Plasma Sharding yokoama (thefoundry Delegate) [8:09 PM] Sharting mak [8:09 PM] "We believe in a different business model." I respect that. But it changes the ark's value proposition to just being a source of funding to the ark team and a means of speculation. goldenpepe [8:09 PM] Shards in ethereum are like bridgechains but the coins are all erc20s that rely on ethereum Matthew_DC [8:09 PM] People said ARK's DPoS mechanism would be a failure when we changed the voting structure because they said it wouldn't be secure enough. It has turned out to be massively secure compared to the centralized cartel run solutions of other DPoS chains. This is another fundamental issue where we believe we have a model that will work and will create value and thousands of use cases for the ARK token in a seamless way for the average user. goldenpepe [8:09 PM] and the shard blocks dont interfere or bloat up the "main" eth chain mak [8:09 PM] @goldenpepe I'm not suggesting deploying dapps on main chain. Just that the voting should take place there so there is always incentive to keep money on the main chain. Matthew_DC [8:10 PM] At no point did we say ARK was gas and have constantly made sure to outline the differences between ARK and Ethereum. I believe the Eth model is flawed. goldenpepe [8:11 PM] The current ethereum model is flawed If sharding works then it's going to solve a lot of its issues (i dont hold any ethereum btw) arigard [8:12 PM] At no point have we actually had an updated white paper discussing this question in detail, clearly. It's not on the website and if it is it's buried somewhere in a blog post. The fact these discussions keep cropping up is proof of this. nukacolaplease [8:12 PM] I think we don't understand clearly what makes Ark important after the launch of the sidechains, Ark will be only an "exchange token"? The sidechain doesn't need Ark for operating goldenpepe [8:12 PM] +1 on needing a new whitepaper Matthew_DC [8:12 PM] replied to a thread: This is a means of centralization of the network. Instead, by utilizing a form of pegged bridge chains, we can maintain a similar effect without creating centralization and reliance on 1 chain for others to properly function. arkenstone [8:12 PM] I think these things should be clearly written in a new WB and officially made public and promoted goldenpepe [8:12 PM] A new whitepaper would clear up so much FUD pieface [8:13 PM] Yeah I think a new WP is needed for sure arigard [8:13 PM] So don't start going "Oh everybody knows this, it's clear" Show me where on the front page of the website it tells you how the token mechanics will work in the ecosystem? It's not good it being on some powerpoint on a google drive, or hidden in comments in the slack. mak [8:13 PM] I though there wasn't going to be a new whitepaper. arigard [8:13 PM] It needs to be clear to investors how it works, exactly. goldenpepe [8:13 PM] I agree with arigard here I only know what I know because I live on slack Matthew_DC [8:13 PM] The solutions are still in development and there are always opportunities to continue to adapt the model, that's why I have these conversations and ask for feedback regularly, but the core fundamental belief of how open and free decentralized markets should work most likely won't change. arkenstone [8:13 PM] Same here goldenpepe [8:14 PM] The vast majority of ark holders have no idea they just bought bc of the cool red triangle arigard [8:14 PM] Stop playing cute, this is people's money you are asking for. So at least give them the benefit of being honest that there is no inherent business model reason why Ark will be necessary in the future. And let them make their decisions. roks0n (deadlock) [8:14 PM] I agree, it took me months of following discussion on slack and digging around reddit to get information arigard [8:14 PM] With proper information. mak [8:14 PM] replied to a thread: It's centralizing value onto one chain but doesn't bottleneck the ecosystem so I don't see anything being wrong with that. Matthew_DC [8:15 PM] replied to a thread: I'm not arguing with you and I made a clear post here within the last 2 days that our website messaging is shit and needs completely redone. If the ARK network is compromised or the consensus mechanism of the ARK main net is compromised then all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well. mad4thrash [8:15 PM] In my opinion Ark's value come from (in the future) the fact that by holding one coin I can interact with every bridgechain plus any ACES services Matthew_DC [8:16 PM] So what I am saying is that we have to be cautious of these kinds of decisions and ensure that we aren't inadvertently creating attack vectors to take down partners, businesses, and other industries using the technology. I'm sorry guys, I have to go, but I would love to continue this conversation on Reddit or here at a later time. mak [8:16 PM] "all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well" ^ Correction: only the VM chain will be compromised since I'm not advocating that all bridgechains should vote on the main chain. Matthew_DC [8:19 PM] In an isolated case, if we can map it out and vet the concept, I'm more than happy to hear it out and have the conversation. Solowatch [8:19 PM] So I think we can all agree an updated Whitepaper is due Matthew_DC [8:20 PM] This is a community project and we are shaping pieces of it together as we continue to build. We have already made changes based on community feedback on many occasions. So I would love to see someone post a proposal to reddit or even as an AIP at some point that we could discuss. Jarunik [8:20 PM] If you write a white paper it will be outdated soon :smile: Solowatch [8:21 PM] Well a V2 whitepaper shouldn’t be outdated soon I don’t care about a V1 or V1.5 whitepaper lol I want a whitepaper for V2 that’s clearly explaining all these concerns that the community has arkenstone [8:22 PM] :this: Solowatch [8:23 PM] I wrote a few questions down that I’ll post in here later today that @rob [ Ark Labs ] asked for. Please add to it if I missed anything once I do. arkenstone [8:23 PM] And I think now it's the time do it. Present it with full package on mainet launch.. (edited) Solowatch [8:23 PM] Or PM and I’ll add them before posting mak [8:25 PM] Anyways thanks for listening and responding @Matthew_DC. Some of us have been trying to discuss this with the ark team but didn't get much feedback until today. arigard [8:25 PM] Yeah +1 arkenstone [8:28 PM] Alot of early investors are getting worried
Hashrate: went from 54 to 76 PH/s, the low was 50 and the new all-time high is 100 PH/s. BeePool share rose to ~50% while F2Pool shrank to 30%, followed by coinmine.pl at 5% and Luxor at 3%. Staking: 30-day average ticket price is 95.6 DCR (+3.0) as of Sep 3. During the month, ticket price fluctuated between a low of 92.2 and high of 100.5 DCR. Locked DCR represented between 3.8 and 3.9 million or 46.3-46.9% of the supply. Nodes: there are 217 public listening and 281 normal nodes per dcred.eu. Version distribution: 2% at v1.4.0(pre) (dev builds), 5% on v1.3.0 (RC1), 62% on v1.2.0 (-5%), 22% on v1.1.2 (-2%), 6% on v1.1.0 (-1%). Almost 69% of nodes are v.1.2.0 and higher and support client filters. Data snapshot of Aug 31.
Obelisk posted 3 email updates in August. DCR1 units are reportedly shipping with 1 TH/s hashrate and will be upgraded with firmware to 1.5 TH/s. Batch 1 customers will receive compensation for missed shipment dates, but only after Batch 5 ships. Batch 2-5 customers will be receiving the updated slim design. Innosilicon announced the new D9+ DecredMaster: 2.8 TH/s at 1,230 W priced $1,499. Specified shipping date was Aug 10-15. FFMiner DS19 claims 3.1 TH/s for Blake256R14 at 680 W and simultaneously 1.55 TH/s for Blake2B at 410 W, the price is $1,299. Shipping Aug 20-25. Another newly noticed miner offer is this unit that does 46 TH/s at 2,150 W at the price of $4,720. It is shipping Nov 2018 and the stats look very close to Pangolin Whatsminer DCR (which has now a page on asicminervalue).
www.d1pool.com joined the list of stakepools for a total of 16. Australian CoinTreeadded DCR trading. The platform supports fiat, there are some limitations during the upgrade to a new system but also no fees in the "Early access mode". On a related note, CoinTree is working on a feature to pay household bills with cryptocurrencies it supports. Three new OTC desks were added to exchanges page at decred.org. Two mobile wallets integrated Decred:
Coinomiadded Decred to their Android and iOS wallets. In addition to the Apple App Store and Google Play you can download the APK directly. Coinomi features an integrated cryptocurrency exchange and is the first company to offer a mobile Decred wallet.
Reminder: do your best to understand the security and privacy model before using any wallet software. Points to consider: who controls the seed, does the wallet talk to the nodes directly or via middlemen, is it open source or not?
Bit Dialsannounced DCR support via GloBee at their bitdials.eu luxury boutique. Their separate supercar and classic car shop bitcars.eu also accepts DCR, either via GloBee or with manual invoicing in case of privacy concerns.
Targeted advertising report for August was posted by @timhebel. Facebook appeal is pending, some Google and Twitter campaigns were paused and some updated. Read more here. Contribution to the @decredproject Twitter account has evolved over the past few months. A #twitter_ops channel is being used on Matrix to collaboratively draft and execute project account tweets (including retweets). Anyone with an interest in contributing to the Twitter account can ask for an invitation to the channel and can start contributing content and ideas there for evaluation by the Twitter group. As a result, no minority or unilateral veto over tweets is possible. (from GitHub)
Meetup in Puebla City, Mexico, organized by @elian. (photo, slides, missed in July issue)
@joshuam discussed Decred and decentralized organizations with Craig Laundy, Federal Minister for Small Business, the Workplace, and Deregulation with the Australian Government, at @YBFVentures. (photos)
Meetup at @TheBlockCafe in Lisbon, Portugal. @mm presented "Decred 101 - Governance with Skin in the Game" and @moo31337 talked about Decred's 2018 roadmap. (photos: 123)
Meetup in Taipei, Taiwan. @morphymore made a short intro of Decred and noted: "After the talk, many have approached to tell me that they literally don’t hear of Decred until today, and are interested in finding out more about the merit of a hybrid consensus system.". Longer report here, some photos and a video are here.
@eSizeDave introduced Decred to the SILC Undergraduate Program students at @YBFVentures. (photo)
OKEx Global Meetup Tour in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. @joshuam gave a brief presentation covering the history of Decred, how the project functions, and the importance of governance. Afterwards he joined a panel discussion and spoke about Decred's incentives for long term viability. (video, video, photo)
Blockchain Futurist Conference in Toronto, Canada. @zubairzia0 noted: "Devs and the community were held in high regard for the people who knew about decred ... one positive thing I remember was someone defending us saying 'Decred does not need a booth', I believe that comment was reflective of the quality of projects being showcased at the conference.". (photo)
Meetup at @YBFVentures in Melbourne, Australia. @joshuam discussed Decred with Graham Stuart, U.K. Minister for International Trade. (news, photos)
Small meetup with Jackson Palmer in Melbourne, Australia. (photo)
Hawthorne Street Fair in Portland, USA. Raedah Group was out answering questions about crypto and Decred. (photos)
Blockchain APAC in Melbourne, Australia. @joshuam joined a panel discussion with reps from banking, university and ISO/TC 307. @eSizeDave reports: "This enterprise conference was indeed a whole lot better than I expected. The presentations were actually full of very worthwhile information from credible people, articulated aptly to a very government, academic, and corporate crowd, who genuinely took on board valuable insights. Good to know some of these key people are Decred holders and stakers as well. I got to use the entire day to speak directly with some of the most pivotal personalities in this particular populace. Ongoing relationships have been built and strengthened.". (photos: 123)
For those willing to help with the events:
BAB: Hey all, we are gearing up for conference season. I have a list of places we hope to attend but need to know who besides @joshuam and @Haon are willing to do public speaking, willing to work booths, or help out at them? You will need to be well versed on not just what is Decred, but the history of Decred etc... DM me if you are interested. (#event_planning) The Decred project is looking for ambassadors. If you are looking for a fun cryptocurrency to get involved in send me a DM or come talk to me on Decred slack. (@marco_peereboom, longer version here)
One private work channel was successfully migrated to Matrix.
Stylish room avatars were set.
@Haon has prepared a short guide to help new Matrix users get started and join the Decred rooms.
A thread was started to discuss changes to Decred jargon with the intent to make it more consistent and accessible to newcomers. The question whether changing "official" terminology requires stakeholder approval was touched in this thread and in #documentation.
Project fund transparency and constitution were extensively discussed on Reddit and in #general.
Pre-proposal to use Politeia to approve Politeia as a legitimate decision-making tool for Decred.
Reddit: substantive discussion about Decred cons; ecosystem fund; a thread about voter engagement, Politeia UX and trolling; idea of a social media system for Decred by @michae2xl; how profitable is the Obelisk DCR1. Chats: cross-chain trading via LN; plans for contractor management system, lower-level decision making and contractor privacy vs transparency for stakeholders; measuring dev activity; what if the network stalls, multiple implementations of Decred for more resilience, long term vision behind those extensive tests and accurate comments in the codebase; ideas for process for policy documents, hosting them in Pi and approving with ticket voting; about SPV wallet disk size, how compact filters work; odds of a wallet fetching a wrong block in SPV; new module system in Go; security of allowing Android app backups; why PoW algo change proposal must be specified in great detail; thoughts about NIPoPoWs and SPV; prerequisites for shipping SPV by default (continued); Decred vs Dash treasury and marketing expenses, spending other people's money; why Decred should not invade a country, DAO and nation states, entangling with nation state is poor resource allocation; how winning tickets are determined and attack vectors; Politeia proposal moderation, contractor clearance, the scale of proposals and decision delegation, initial Politeia vote to approve Politeia itself; chat systems, Matrix/Slack/Discord/RocketChat/Keybase (continued); overview of Korean exchanges; no breaking changes in vgo; why project fund burn rate must keep low; asymptotic behavior of Decred and other ccs, tail emission; count of full nodes and incentives to run them; Politeia proposal translations and multilingual environment. An unusual event was the chat about double negatives and other oddities in languages in #trading.
DCR started the month at USD 56 / BTC 0.0073 and had a two week decline. On Aug 14 the whole market took a huge drop and briefly went below USD 200 billion. Bitcoin went below USD 6,000 and top 100 cryptos lost 5-30%. The lowest point coincided with Bitcoin dominance peak at 54.5%. On that day Decred dived -17% and reached the bottom of USD 32 / BTC 0.00537. Since then it went sideways in the USD 35-45 / BTC 0.0054-0.0064 range. Around Aug 24, Huobi showed DCR trading volume above USD 5M and this coincided with a minor recovery. @ImacallyouJawdy posted some creative analysis based on ticket data.
StopAndDecrypt published an extensive article "ASIC Resistance is Nothing but a Blockchain Buzzword" that is much in line with Decred's stance on ASICs. The ongoing debates about the possible Sia fork yet again demonstrate the importance of a robust dispute resolution mechanism. Also, we are lucky to have the treasury. Mark B Lundeberg, who found a vulnerability in atomicswap earlier, published a concept of more private peer-to-peer atomic swaps. (missed in July issue) Medium took a cautious stance on cryptocurrencies and triggered at least one project to migrate to Ghost (that same project previously migrated away from Slack). Regulation: Vietnam bans mining equipment imports, China halts crypto events and tightens control of crypto chat groups. Reddit was hacked by intercepting 2FA codes sent via SMS. The announcement explains the impact. Yet another data breach suggests to think twice before sharing any data with any company and shift to more secure authentication systems. Intel and x86 dumpsterfire keeps burning brighter. Seek more secure hardware and operating systems for your coins. Finally, unrelated to Decred but good for a laugh: yetanotherico.com.
About This Issue
This is the 5th issue of Decred Journal. It is mirrored on GitHub, Medium and Reddit. Past issues are available here. Most information from third parties is relayed directly from source after a minimal sanity check. The authors of Decred Journal have no ability to verify all claims. Please beware of scams and do your own research. Feedback is appreciated: please comment on Reddit, GitHub or #writers_room on Matrix or Slack. Contributions are welcome too. Some areas are collecting content, pre-release review or translations to other languages. Check out @Richard-Red's guide how to contribute to Decred using GitHub without writing code. Credits (Slack names, alphabetical order): bee, Haon, jazzah, Richard-Red and thedecreddigest.
A cryptoforker's guide to free money - Part 1 (The holy ymgve script + what and where to exchange)
EDIT: a new version of this guide, multilingual and featuring a wallet checker (input your IP, see what you can fork and how much it is worth) is available at https://cryptodom.org
Hello my lovely forkers! A while ago I made a post A cryptoforker's guide to free money - Part 2 (Coinomi, Bither, Bitpie, Walleting Services) where I explained how I used a combination of COINOMI and BITPIE (together with DIG WALLETING SERVICES) to get hold of most forked coins - And then how I sold them (main sites used: GATE.IO / BTCTRADE.COM / BIT-Z.COM / EXRATES.ME / COINEX.COM). Please refer to that for the instructions regarding Bither and Coinomi. QUICK NOTE: If you are a seasoned forker, just look at point 4 and see if your pokem… I mean fork coins collection is complete :-p / If instead you are a total newbie, remember you can just do the “PREPARATION” part and then claim through DIG WALLETING (affiliate link: https://dig.walleting.services/#/aff/o5YP75ALDORdaAbmrJJx NON affiliate link: https://dig.walleting.services/# ) if the process is too hard/long/risky - these guys are reliable and provide a great service, especially for those who have a plethora of transactions and would need to hunt down every last key manually - they have a Reddit, too: you can reach them at Walleting_Services . BEFORE YOU START: What is a fork? Is it really free money? Imagine you had a bank account at BTCbank and a card for it. Tomorrow BTCbank splits and half of its branches become BTC2bank. Nothing changes for you as a client of BTCbank, however there is something you can now do. You can move your money from your BTCbank account to a new BTCbank account, in practice making the card for your former account useless in the BTNbank branches but… NOT IN THE BTN2bank branches! So you can go there and get the equivalent of what you had in “free” money. Nothing illegal, nothing shady, no bugs or exploits: it’s all there by design. Keeping with the example though, it should be specified that you must have the “card” of your BTCbank, which in this case is a private key. If you have your BTC stored on papehardware wallet or anywhere else where you are in direct control of your private keys, well done! Those keys are your BTCbank card(s). If, on the other hand, you held your money on an exchange (Binance, Bitfinex, Bittrex, you name it), then your only chance is to wait and hope that the exchange decides to support the coin and gives you your share. It’s not impossible but it introduces a middleman. It’s like you are asking your uncle to have an account in his name at BTCbank and there is no guarantee that uncle will go to a new branch of BTNbank2 and use the card trick to get the free money and give it to you, no matter how much you ask him to. He could do it, he could not: it’s uncle’s call. PREPARATION: First of all, a question: are you after the fork money to exchange it yourself or do you just want to claim it but want someone else to do all the exchange part for you? If you want to squeeze every last bit out of it, get ready to sign up to a few Chinese exchanges! You might as well do this now before you start, otherwise you’ll get stuck at the cashing part. Same goes for the script. No target address, no script. I warned you :) Anyway, here’s the list: • GATE.IO • BTCTRADE.IM • COINEX.COM • EXRATES.ME • TRADESATOSHI.COM • BIT-Z.COM My personal favourite is GATE.IO, despite the 60 confirmations (up to 14 hours), but they all helped me one way or another, and most importantly they all allow withdrawal (BTCTRADE.IM wanted verification papers, the others didn’t). Also, make sure to have Coinomi, Bither and Bitpie installed on an Android phone. STEP 1 - THE GOLDEN RULE Just like in the previous post, let me start off by warning everyone: what are you about to do is dangerous. You could lose your bitcoins. Are you scared? You should be, cause the threat is real. Nobody wants to lose 1 BTC to try and claim a few tens/hundreds of dollars, right? So, first and foremost, make sure that you MOVE your coins from wherever they are (ideally, an offline wallet like a ledger or a trezor), and then, once the wallet is empty, feel free to play around with its private keys, that will hopefully show some transferrable balance at the time of the fork. STEP 2 - GETTING YOUR KEYS - https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ For getting the keys, this is your number one option - with an offline version for paranoid available, no less. Use the seed (those 24 words in the case of ledger, for example) and after the calculation go get your keys in the chart at the end of the page. In case you have segwit addresses or special scenarios (like a wallet with a lot of operations over a long time), getting the keys, or the “right” keys, might take a while. Anyway: let’s look at the first line of the chart. In the first column you will find the address: copy and paste it onto https://blockchain.info/ and press enter to get the transaction history for that given address. Let’s suppose for the sake of this example that our address shows 2 transactions: one inbound for 2 BTC 1 year ago and anther one for the outgoing BTC 5 minutes ago (because before we started this we DID move them out, right?!?). What that means is that at the time of the forkS (in this case we’d get money from most of them) we had 2 BTC on that address. Great, so it’s loaded, and we need its key. Let’s go back to the chart on line one and let’s have a look at the third column: this is our private key. We will use it later to sweep or import in the various method outlined. STEP 3 - THE SCRIPT - https://github.com/ymgve/bitcoin_fork_claimer If you have ben around this subreddit long enough you surely read about the script… And spared a tender thought for ymgve who made this possible. Yet, no one really explains properly how to use it. Unfortunately I do not have the time to explain how to get python installed and running on a machine, you will have to figure it out on your own. Same goes for the fact that you might need to write “py” or “python” before the actual “claimer.py (…)” command. Let’s say you somehow get ready to run the script - now you do have a series of examples on the github page, but they are not so easy to understand for the uninitiated. Here is the relevant quote: In blockchain.info mode it uses the blockchain.info API to query and validate information about the transaction you're spending from. This only works for transferring/claiming coins that existed on the BTC main chain pre-fork. SYNTAX: * claimer.py
Hydro AMA Q&A Roundup with BitcoinMarkets (Slack), 15 June 2018
I've taken the liberty of rounding up all the questions and answers provided from Hydro's most recent AMA hosted with BitcoinMarkets incase you missed it. Enjoy! Hydro Q&A’s Q (knonsu): How does Snowflake relate to other identity protocols out there like Civic and uPort ? A.1 (Anurag): We see snowflake as existing a layer below these types of projects. Even without blockchain, identity is a broad term. Different people around the world have different forms of identity (state ID, country ID, social media IDs, etc). Civic, uPort, and other blockchain projects help to build specific types of an on-chain identity for a user; however those IDs are meaningful in different ways to different observers. For instance, imagine that a government or business builds a system that accepts Civic as a form of identity while another government/business only recognizes uPort identities. On top of this, certain systems only care about information tied to a user’s social media profile. A user can maintain one standard Snowflake as a base layer and set each of these different forms of identity as a resolver. Snowflake eliminates the need for global unanimous adoption of a singular identity standard and rather allows systems to build business logic off of identity standards they themselves recognize. Follow up Q (knonsu): thats cool. so its totally depends on the person/ institute utilizing it . One problem I found is how easy its to create fake identities (in their basic system). A.2 (Anurag): Yup! So people can conduct off-chain verifications to prove that you own a snowflake, and then tie an on-chain verification to your Snowflake. This links real-world KYC to your on-chain ID, so sure you could mint another snowflake, but that same party won't validate it again for you. Anyone who trusts that party would be able to accept their validations, and people who don't trust that party can rely on a different validator they do trust. — Q (kat): How big is the team working specifically on Hydro products? Can we get a numbers breakdown of engineers, biz dev, etc? Do you have plans to scale this team as the Hydro project develops? A.1 (Andy): Our Hydro team is 8 people. Devlopers (Myself and Noah) Product (Anurag and Shane) Community (Nahom) Founders (Mike and Matt) Partnerships/BizDev (Gunjan) The nice thing about Hydrogen though is we have a team of 30 people who we can leverage for different things. For example, Noah and I do not build mobile apps, but we have a front end team that is well versed in mobile app development. So while they are not directly on the Hydro team they do have a direct impact on Hydro. Hydrogen as a company is working to grow pretty rapidly. As we grow we will be filling out more positions in both blockchain and non-blockchain rolls. A.2 (Anurag): To add to Andy's answer - pretty much everyone working for Hydrogen helps out with Hydro in some way, whether via design, front-end development, API support, business discussion, etc. Here's our full team: https://www.hydrogenplatform.com/about — Q (rocket man): So in the age of ICOs, what motivated your team to not pursue that funding model and instead have a token distribution for developers? A (Andy): This was something that we spent a very long time considering and discussing. We spent a lot of resources (time, money & energy) trying to find the best solution for us going forward. When it was all said and done, we decided on an airdrop because of two main things, getting the token into the hands of people who will actually use it and regulatory concerns. We feel as though our distribution was the fairest approach that allowed for people with actual interest in the Hydro community to get involved. Overall, we have been very pleased with the level of community engagement from people who are interested in the utility of the Hydro token and we feel that a lot of this can be credited to our distribution strategy. — Q (matheussiq8): How hydro tokens will be used is still vague in the Snowflake whitepaper draft. Would the amount required to hold depend on the volume of API calls or some other parameter? For example, if I decide to implement raindrop and later snowflake in my small webshop would I need to hold the same amount of tokens as Binance (if they ever implement it of course…)? A (Noah): as always, the permissionlessness of public blockchains is a double-edged sword. smart contracts partially solve the problem by letting us enforce certain things on-chain (minimum token balances, signature validity, etc.), but there are limits. so, re. your specific question: in raindrop we do not vary the staking requirement across users, because that would necessarily involve value judgements we are not comfortable making as a centralized entity. however, there are two types of staking required for raindrop:
“institutional staking” requires entities who wish to sign up raindrop users *on their behalf* (i.e. passing new users’ addresses to the smart contract as parameters rather than new users transacting directly from their accounts) to stake a significant amount of hydro. these are the players we want to ensure are acting in the best interests of the community. in this model, hydro is simply one of many institutional stakers (where we sign up users on our kickass mobile app, which will be out soon).
“user staking” requires individuals who wish to sign up for raindrop on their own, i.e. transact directly with the smart contract, are able to do so by staking a much smaller amount of hydro.
What this all means for you, as a potential customer of our API, is that you don’t actually have to worry about the staking requirement or signing up users at all, and can simply use our API in conjunction with the Hydro app. Looking ahead to Snowflake, we have big plans to integrate increasing sophisticated uses of the token into the product. to some extent these are still up in the air, but rest assured that we are very focused on building a strong tokenomics structure. At a high level, the core token mechanism for snowflake will involve depositing tokens into the snowflake smart contract. These deposits will allow native staking/payment/incentive functionality denominated in hydro, without the hassle and worry of using ether with every call. — Q (Hodlall): When is raindrop Android app is releasing A (Andy): It is currently under development. We have a bunch of android phones with different OS on the way. It is hard to give a set date as we don't know what unforeseen issues could come up during the process though. All I can say is it is literally all that our mobile development team is working on — Q (Jeff_We_Cannafi): To piggyback on matheussiq8’s question, how do these identity tokens compare to existing forms of identity authentication, and do you anticipate the tokens themselves will be traded on exchanges? A (Andy): In my opinion, the main difference between what we are working towards and others like civic and uport is the scope of what we are aiming to do. We understand the value of having KYC on the blockchain and "One click signup", but really I think blockchain identity can be so much more than that. We are aiming to create a completely extendable and modular protocol which will allow for people to link anything they desire to their blockchain identity. Other protocols can tend to lean towards centralization (more a fault of current KYC procedures than the projects themselves) and we feel like this doesn't have to be the case. At least for now, something like KYC needs to have central authorities to verify user information, but why can't I also link my crypto kitties to my blockchain id or my linkedin profile to my blockchain id? Overall, what we are trying to build will easily allow for other blockchain developers to create robust identity solutions for whatever application they feel fit with Snowflake being at the core of that. We feel that this is crucial to eventually creating a completely open and decentralized identity system. Anyone can join and anyone can add what THEY consider to be an identity, but I only have to accept what I consider to be an identity. As far as trading, Snowflake Identity tokens will never be tradable. We feel that you identity should always be linked to you. This would be a dangerous road to a very easy black market for people's identities — Q (Jrock): What do you find the hardest part of pitching icos to regular companies? Also what do you think needs to happen for widespread crypto adoption? A (Shane): If you mean pitching Hydro to regular companies (we're not an ICO :stuck_out_tongue:), I would say the hardest part is getting the larger companies to move faster than a snail's pace. There are too many chefs in the kitchen and sometimes there is a lack of top-down strategy on blockchain, and it leaves large enterprises paralyzed sometimes. We try to resolve this by pitching how easy Hydro is to use, and how it connects to our broader Hydrogen ecosystem which can add value in a lot of places. In my opinion, widespread crypto adoption is going to be dependent on how parallelization plays out. If crypto's only option is to create a new parallel economy, widespread adoption is going to be slow and arduous and will take decades. However, if blockchain is able to be infused or layered on some of the current systems we have in place, the adoption will be much faster and broader. Ultimately this comes down to the usage of private vs public chains - the more private and centralized chains that get implemented, the farther the mainstream adoption will get pushed out. — Q (Luke): One aspect of Hydro that is beginning to really intrigue me are the potential use cases and dapps that can be built by external developers ontop of the Hydro protocol layers for each phase.
Having held various dev meetups and networking at various conferences, how are you finding the process of attracting developers to start building dapps and products in your ecosystem?
I understand the HCDP is getting updated with various new rules and bounties for dapps to be built, have you approached any developers yet with this new offer, and if so, how has the reception been?
How else do you intend to attract developers towards building on the Hydro protocols?
Through our events, we're mainly focused on helping expand the blockchain-focused developer community. We help give exposure to projects we find to be doing neat, innovative work in the space and keep ongoing dialogue with these communities.
In particular, to provide impetus to developers in the Hydro ecosystem, we've established the HCDP. The new process will involve putting out specific task requests. In the next week or so we'll have published specifications for dApps that can be built on top of Snowflake. We ourselves will not be building these dApps (they have nothing to do with Hydrogen's space as a company). This helps the ecosystem expand outside of Hydrogen-specific use-cases.
^^Through the above process to get them started. Eventually, we want the Hydro development process to be community-driven, so people are building on Hydro because it benefits their own programs and applications.
— Q (elmer_FUD): Hey Hydro Team! Here's a few question I've got for you after checking out the Raindrop and Snowflake whitepapers: How has your experience working in the Ethereum ecosystem been so far? While you are currently focused on the financial sector, would you consider actively marketing to other sectors such as healthcare and education in the future? It seems like both Raindrop and Snowflake would be useful in any environment that processes or stores sensitive data. Do you have plans to release official Raindrop SDK packages in other languages in the future? A bit more of a specific question: Raindrop is looks like a great product to use in a PCI-DSS environment - do you have thoughts on whether or not it the product is ready for primetime and do you think the industry standards and government regulation is prepared to handle these kinds of systems? A (Andy): Thanks for the questions! I'm gonna answer each in a separate response in this thread Overall it has been pretty solid. There is still a ton of room for growth in terms of documentation and stuff like that, but it is miles ahead of basically every other blockchain platform I have worked with. By far the biggest pain has been handling gas costs when considering the user experience. When trying to build actual products that people will want to use we feel that making it user friendly is something that many blockchain projects have not focused on nearly enough. Yeah certainly. We focus on fintech as that is where the rest of our companies APIs focus and that is where we have the most connections, but much of what we are building is much further reaching than that. Just as far as authentication goes, it really can apply to any major field and we intend to market it as such. We currently have Python and JS SDKs and have had a few java ones submitted through our community dev program. We have been revamping that program, but I anticipate we will be putting up more bounties for most major languages. I have considered making a few more myself, but we feel that they could be better suited as community projects. I completely agree. Raindrop and blockchain authentication when handling anything around payments is a great application. I think the biggest thing is actually convincing regulatory bodies that the protocols we have build are secure (since many can still be scared of blockchain). I definitely see this as a direct use case though — Q.1 (khonsu): What kind of banking relations do you have as a company, do they (banks) understand what you are trying to do ? Any VCs approached you for funding ? explain your business model. A.1 (Shane): Hydrogen has existed since 2009 in the form of Hedgeable. Hedgeable is a consumer-facing online investing app, and the tech behind it eventually spawned the Hydrogen tech platform. The story of how the transition happened goes essentially like this: (1) Hedgeable was disrupting banks & investing firms, (2) banks & investing firms started contacting us and seeing if we would help them digitize & automate their own businesses, (3) we started packaging up our tech and selling it to the banks. There was so much demand for this from financial institutions that we spun out a new company (Hydrogen). So to get back to your original question: we have some long-standing relationships in the banking & finance world, and to this day we have inbound leads from that space coming in every week. The key thing to keep in mind is that these institutions move extremely slowly, but they do understand the core value prop of our platform. Many of these firms are still in the midst of basic digitization efforts (i.e. moving from really slow offline processes to simple digital infrastructure), and that is the primary thing we are helping them with in early stages. But they are also keen on blockchain tech and they will naturally turn to us for that once they reach that point. We do have a few relationships with big financial companies in which Hydro/blockchain are already part of the discussion. We have revenue and don't need to rely on VCs. It is our general philosophy that building a business sustainably with actual clients and revenue is a good approach, but we would consider working with the right VC if that came to be and we wanted to scale more quickly. Right now, that is not an immediate concern for us. Our business model is in charging developers and enterprises to access the Hydrogen technology platform, which currently consists of products like Atom, Ion, and Hydro. Developers pay a per-user fee to hit our core APIs, while large enterprises negotiate custom (usually multi-year) contracts with us that typically include recurring revenue. Hydro, specifically, is being offered for free right now, as we attempt to gain adoption. But it is important to note that Hydro is just one piece of our ecosystem. Q.2 (Joleen): When you say fee - is this fee HYDRO? And when do you envisage HYDRO to no longer be offered FOC? A**.2 (Shane):** Sorry if it wasn't clear, I meant free to use our Hydro tech/APIs. The usage of HYDRO tokens within that is a separate issue - they still need to have HYDRO and we do not give it away for free to clients — Q (guacam0le): Adoption of an identity management solution (etc) would potentially involve a lot of identities. Further, scalability is a hot topic w/ blockchain. Is this a potential bottleneck? What is or might be done to address such? Tackling a competitor like Google or Authy's 2FA is no small feat. Also, not everyone is yet to embrace blockchain-based solutions. Have you found it difficult to interface with enterprises & get them excited about the idea of an overhaul? A (Anurag): nowflake is designed to be relatively low-load on the blockchain. A user needs to conduct a single transaction to “mint” their Snowflake. Once this is complete, they would need to complete one-time transactions to set each of their different forms of identities as resolvers as needed. A Snowflake is designed to be built out via resolvers over the duration of a user’s lifetime, so there’s never a need for heavy, frequent transactional capability. Similarly, smart contracts simply need to be set as resolvers by users; they do not themselves transact. Network scalability improvements will increase the range of use-cases for smart contracts that can be tied to Snowflake, but they aren’t a necessary prerequisite to some important early use-cases such as KYC platforms, and a few basic user-interaction platforms. As far as competition, we feel that current adoption of 2FA is, in general far short of where it should be, and any 2FA is generally better than none. Many businesses use text-message based 2FA, etc. In the short-run we are aiming toward pilot implementations with small businesses. To further this, we have put out many integration resources, guides, and documentation and accordingly believe implementation of Raindrop is a more straightforward workflow. As far as large enterprises go, Hydrogen has clients, so it is helpful for our project to have those connections. Large institutions are generally relatively slow-moving, but have expressed interest in using Raindrop, in particular for securing employee accounts. As the product grows, we may eventually move in this direction with Client Raindrop, but resources will always be available for any site that wants to adopt it. Additionally, we are looking into making a wordpress plug-in to make implementation much more accessible for many developers. -- Q (Smithymethods): I know Hydro is a fintech company, hydro plan to curb phishing and hacking to the bearest minimum we know that hacking is very rampant these days on MEW and with other wallet. Is Hydro planning to create a wallet that support hydro and other tokens using their raindrop Technology? As this will put an end to the problem of phishing and also promote hydro A (Noah): like everyone in the crypto space, we’re very worried about phishing, both personally and on behalf of all hydro token holders. we first want to reemphasize that preventing scams and fraud has to be a community-driven effort: teams and users need to be vigilant and promote best practices (never trusting links in public chats, shunning fake accounts, etc.). we are excited about raindrop’s potential to help combat phishing, though. we actually talked with someone about mycrypto about integrating raindrop into their desktop app. we’ve forked their code and are researching how feasible an implementation would be, stay tuned for updates! — Q (Hodlall): What security measures in place for hydro , I see lot of tokens being hacked nowadays , and money is stolen.. how does hydro make sure their team tokens are completely secured or as much as possible A (Andy): We all have been in crypto for a while and are pretty well versed in securing our stuff. Our tokens that are currently locked are in cold storage. Others are held in hardware wallets — Q (Joleen): We know that the Hydrogen platform is going to be used by CI Investments, a large insurance firm and a world top 20 bank, have these companies already begun purchasing Hydro OTC? A (Andy): This is something that we feel is best to be hands off with. It is really up to the discretion of our partners — Q (khonsu’s mumaffi): Ill be honest i have not yet fully read the whitepaper but id like to know other than investor growth do you truly believe there is interest in a model where users have to pay each time for access? How big do u expect this fee to be...for large companies dont you believe this is an unscalable practice? This may be a question more about most technologies built on token based economics too. A (Andy): So we have 2 different authentication protocols. One happens less often and is in the same vein as OAuth. This is called Server-Side Raindrop. This requires tokens to be sent. This protocol would only happen once per day for a business when accessing something like an API. I don't feel that these values are extremely high for increased security. Our second protocol, Client-Side Raindrop, functions much more like google auth. This logic actually does not require any tokens or even a transaction by the end user. It is 100% free for them to use and they will never have to pay for a transaction. Here the responsibility is on the implementing party to stake tokens. This allows them to onboard users and authenticate them. We felt it was crucial to have an authentication that did not have a cost per user login as it is not scalable — Q (khonsu’s mumaffi): Also do u plan to tokenise atom and ion too and if not covered earlier how big of an impact do the market conditions have on your business A (Anurag): Tough to say we're going to "tokenize" them since that word can carry a lot of different meanings in different contexts, but we do plan on integrating the entire Hydrogen platform with Hydro. This will most likely take the form of enhancements to systems leveraging Hydro. You can find a more detailed breakdown on our Hydro roadmap: https://medium.com/hydrogen-api/project-hydro-features-in-depth-look-39faa29f0d61 Market conditions don't really have an impact - we're still building the same tech on a day-to-day basis — Q (ghost): As a company in the space, do you see the fact that tokens have to be acquired on exchanges as an issue? How would a company that wants to develop with you acquire tokens? A (Anurag): Depends on what they're developing. dApps developing using Hydro smart contracts to create native functionality to their applications would need to acquire those tokens on their own; however, companies using the Hydrogen API will not. Here's a detailed article outlining when a developer would need the token for the Client Raindrop smart contract: https://medium.com/hydrogen-api/how-to-use-client-raindrop-without-using-the-hydrogen-api-bb04934ae293 — Q (jarederaj): Can you describe your stakeholders and give me a better sense of the exigency of your products? Who are you focused on serving with your platform and why are they motivated to use your platform? A (Shane): The Hydrogen platform serves developers and enterprises who want to build applications. We are specifically targeting the financial services sector, including banks, investing firms, insurance providers, and financial advisors. This includes large enterprises, individual developers, and startups. Our products are Atom (core digital infrastructure & engine for finserv), Ion (AutoML & business intelligence capabilities), and Hydro (blockchain & decentralization layer). Each has a different use case but these products combine to form an ecosystem of tools for developers to build sophisticated applications with. The main pain point we are addressing is the resources required to build, launch, and run a digital financial application. These resources include both time and money. Large enterprises have resources, but they waste years and millions of dollars trying to launch digital platforms (we've seen this first-hand), often unsuccessfully. The motivation here is obvious. Startups and smaller developers, on the other hand, do not have access to huge resource pools, so they are forced to look for solutions that make the process more efficient. In the same way that Wordpress makes launching a blog easy and also allows for extended functionality, Hydrogen makes launching fintech application easy. — Q (shujjishah): When the app will be released??? A (Anurag): We're going through our mobile development very iteratively. Since we work very closely with the product, there are things we can't recognize until we've got people beta testing the app. As we started Beta testing and conducting user-research, we realized that one aspect of the UI for the app was not intuitive to about half of our testers. We decided to make a few API changes to enable the mobile app to display a "linked" vs "unlinked" status in order to improve the user experience. Our front-end team is finalizing these changes, so our Beta testers will receive a new build in their testflight apps within the next few days. This new build will require another round of Beta testing to ensure that none of the code changes causes any problems on devices; if this change goes smoothly, and our mainnet testing goes smoothly, we will be able to release the app this month. Since there isn't much precedent on releasing a product into the app store that connects users with the ethereum mainnet, our primary concern is making sure the product works fully as intended and provides an intuitive user experience. Misc Q&A’s Q (elmer_FUD): What's your favorite thing to drink? A.1 (Andy): Overall, I really love Baja Blast Mountain Dew. If I am drinking, I'm a big fan of fruity beers like Blue Moon and Shocktop. Also had a really good raspberry sour recently A.2 (Nahom): Primary=water but i do enjoy Jamaican ginger ale/beer. We keep honest tea in the office too, i love it because it brings me back from the dead:skull_and_crossbones:, @Hydro Andy drinks most of it behind my back though :triumph: A.3 (Noah): hard: tequila or picklebacks soft: any sour beer other: mango juice i also crush like 2 nalgene’s worth of water every day at work A.4 (Shane): For hard alcohol: whiskey/bourbon A.5 (Anurag): ooh, went to the finback brewery last weekend; was wonderful — Q (Joleen): Do you HODL any other tokens personally? A.1 (Andy): I do. I think it is probably best to not say which, but if you follow me enough in #altcoins I am sure you will see me talk about a few A.2 (Noah): im a bit of an eth maximalist actually :grimacing: i do dabble though — Q (Joleen): Who got who in the World Cup sweepstakes? A.1 (Andy): I'm going for Germany, but I know next to nothing about soccer A.2 (Shane): I'm rooting for Portugal, but I don't think they're going to win the cup — Q (Joleen): Who's got the best banter in the office? And who has the worst? A.1 (Andy): One of our backend devs, Paavan, typically has some great banter and even better hot takes A.2 (Noah): dont @ me for worst banter A.3 (Shane): Sabih (BA @ Hydrogen) banter is by far the best
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